Table Forge with Ribbon Burner

efleming

efleming

Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Messages
679
I've had a project to build a table forge for some time. All the parts have been lying around but never got in the grove to make it until I was motivated by seeing a ribbon burner at Travis Wuertz hammer-in last month. Well this forge has far exceeded my expectations. I'm running it with 1/4 PSI residentual natural gas and getting a temp range from 1600F on the low end to 2300F on the upper end. Running propane takes no special effort either. Just disconnnect natural gas line and hook up propane bottle. No changing orifices. This burner is so versatile. It's nice to be able to lay a piece of bar stock inside rather than balance a short piece in my vertical forge. Super even heat with no hot spots in the forge. Unlimited door configurations with bricks. Shell is a 12" X 22" X 2" piece of high temp wool with a light refactory coating (satinite) as a rigidizer. Here are a few pictures. The link below shows the build pictures. Man I like this thing...

ribbonforge012.jpg


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Full build pics here --> http://www.flemingknives.com/ribbonforge.htm

Eric
 
That. Is. Awesome. Great looking forge. I read up on ribbon burners a few years back and thought they'd be a great idea. Love the way you did the shell. Very simple.

Any more information on the burner iteself?

--nathan
 
Ah...there IS a link at the end of the post. I was too busy drooling over the pictures to see it. :) Thanks!

--nathan
 
That is quite simply put, the sexiest forge I have ever seen! I was talking to Aldo I guess about 5 months ago about ribbon burners, great googley moogley when I build our next house and include a shop, this is on the want list.
Calling this brilliant isn't half the truth--and I love the birthday candle trick.
 
I've had an unfinished ribbon burner hanging around in my old shop for like six years now, never got the castable to finish it. I've wanted to build one since seeing pics of a build (crayons) in the NWBA's Hot Iron News. I never thought to put one in the floor, did you come up with that? It must work well, otherwise you wouldn't be so happy with it. This must be a pretty quiet forge too, I've seen one run before and it was just kind of whispering along. How long do you think that shell is going to hold shape with the satanite? I like the look and simplicity of it, I'd probably have used a steel half shell over it but your way may be better?
Aargh. Now I'm re-inspired to build yet another tool I don't have parts money for! Thanks all the same for sharing, Eric.

Edit: by the way, did you melt or drill the candles out?
 
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Pretty awesome!!! Did you cast the thermocouple right into the floor of the forge? Love the burner design!!
 
Maybe its me. That looks awfully large for just knives. Do you use it for other blacksmithing projects? I am just wondering. I bought the NCtool Whisper daddy lowboy. Yours looks like it can be used for larger projects. While If I want to do larger items, I have to go use a friends forge. Great idea! I just might have to steal that idea.
 
Hey Salem. Glad I can help your never ending money pit quest for more tools... :rolleyes: This project was one of those things just sitting around my shop for a number of years too until I was inspired by seeing a ribbon burner in action then watched the candle trick as one was made for a person at the hammer-in. My design for a floor burner came from seeing a single burner forge like that at Mike Vagnino's shop about 4 years ago. He had the same type of shell but much smaller and it was a little portable kit unit, chamber maybe 5" X 9". He had ordered it from someone in the pacific north west as I recall. The kit came with a blower, steel frame to pour in the refactory, a burner and the shell material with rigidizing instructions. From what I understand his rigidized shell is still going strong. It's so light unless you crush it I really do not think it will lose shape. Yes, the forge is very quiet. Just the sound of the fan rather than the roar of a traditional burner. As far as the candles go, I just took my heat gun and stuck it in the 3" pipe opening at the bottom of the burner and those candles were melted out in no time. No drilling required. It was actually a pretty easy build compared to other forges I've made in the past. BTW, I made mine out of an old welding table, scrap steel for the burner, a few fire bricks and bag of castable refractory from the local pottery store, pipe and valve from another old system and a second hand blower. All in I'm just around that $150 mark for the build. Not to bad.

Eric
 
Mike, No I did not cast in a thermocouple but that would have been a good idea. I just slipped it under the shell. You can see it coming out the side in one of the pictures.

Dsgibbs1, yes it is large for just knives. I actually plan on two shell sizes, a smaller one for just knives but this size was need for a project that I could not do with my small door on the horizontal forge. Spurs... There are may blacksmith projects that in the past I had to go use someone's coal forge due to the size of the parts. With this set up I should be able to do most of my blacksmith projects right at home.

Eric
 
Thanks for the quick response Eric. Upon further study of your pics, i see it. I have been researching new forges all morning and this one style might be just what i make, as i had a buddy drop off 500 lbs. of firebrick to me yesterday!!! Now i just need to order some castable....
 
I've been dying to build a ribbon burner forge and you're helping the inspiration department Eric! My desire stems from the need to run a larger forging chamber for some Damascus projects (I want to be able to work a piece 6"x6"x?"). I'd straight out copy this, but I'm concerned about the floor burner being a place for flux to drain. Do you think it would work as well with a small "wall" an inch or so tall next to the burner, or maybe casting the burner a little thicker so it stands above the forge floor or something? Also, how long does it take to heat up and stabilize? The one thing I like about my horizontal is that it heats up QUICK due to the use of kaowool rather than castable.

Thanks for sharing, the candle trick in particular.

-d
 
Hello Deker. My original plans were to have the burner stand proud by about 1/4" to keep flux away from the burner holes. I've been fluxless for about 6 months now with my Damascus and do not plan on going back. If you are going to be building a flux wall, I would think a 1/4" would be all you need. Maybe even 1/8". Just enough to keep flux from settling around the wool sealing the burner next to the refactory. As far as stabilizing, it does take longer than a pure kaowool forge. I'd say it took about 20 minutes until it was stabilized for welding heat. That was with my large dome top. Looking forward to trying a smaller chamber size as well. Just need to cut some more wool, paint on some satinite and set on a cylinder the size I want the chamber to be and let dry. Mods are so easy with this setup... Let me know what you go with.

Eric
 
That is "Super Slick" my friend. Great idea.

If you have the time, tell me a bit more about your "fluxless" welding.

Thanks,

Robert
 
Thanks for the reply about that. As I stated, I have access to a larger forge. Downside is I have to borrow one. I might look into this further. Like Mr Dark, I wish to know more about this "fluxless" welding. If you care to share I would be all ears. Flux plays havoc on firebrick.
 
Whatever I go with, it won't be as nicely built ads yours :) Good to know that it heats quickly, that has been my one concern about a forge that's more refractory based. Any chance of some video of it running?

I assume your fluxless welding is using kerosene? I've been meaning to try it, but I know that for some of the work I do it's simply not an option and I'll need to stick with flux. My plan is to use thin firebrick coated with a refractory for the floor. I've had no issues with flux eating my forge floors in 6 years, so I'm assuming I'm doing something right.

Take care,

-d
 
Hello Robert, dsgibbs and Deker,

My most used method of fluxless welding involves TIG welding my seams with no filler rod. It takes a little longer to prepare a billet than if I used flux but here's the kicker. I have never had a billet fail with this method and don't get flux inclusions. To me that is worth the time. Recently I tried kerosene after watching Owen Wood demonstrate his technique. It worked for me but only have one billet under my belt with that method. Will be doing more testing there for sure.

Deker, I'd be glad to post video of the forge running when I get back in town. In D.C. today and tomorrow. SC the next two days then to SF / Sonoma for a few more days. Work is busy right now... I'll post video to this link when able.

Eric
 
Nice forge Eric. I look forward to building another one, but it hasn't happened yet. Glad you stopped by in Pasadena.
 
hello eric,
that is a great looking forge. you did a really good job. i know very little a forges and there design. my question is what are the advantages of a ribbon burner?
Thank you,
Doug Adams
John 3:16
 
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