Tactical knives, Hype Vs. Reality

[Siggyhk]

Fisrt, I strongly feel that a black coated blade is an "mprovement"over nearly any knife. A blacked blade may make the knife less reflective, or sneaky, but that is basically all part of this "tactical b.s." that people are against. To me, a blackened blade does one thing, and does it well, It prohibits rust and corrotion of the blade. You have many people who refuse a coated blade and love a satin finish. That is an issue where someone is buyin a knife based on looks, as opposed to functionality. A black blade is functional.
I also know how to take care of my knives, and do religiously, but a non coated blade is likely to begin to rust at one point or another, or just need more care. I will settle with a camo finish mt/strider next in line due to the fact that at least some of the blade is coated.- Pure functionallity.

To me, as hasbeen stated, a solider needs more of a versitile utility knife as opposed to a tactical knife. I see a tactical knife as any knife thats design is one based as a weapon. Today we have these knives everywhere and I love em. I will very likley never use one for its intended use, but I still can appreciate them. I agree that tactical may not be the best word to use, but it works by definition. I like to collect knive that are weapons. A tactical knife is just a knife whos design offers its user slight advantages in a weapon usage situation. Lots of times a company selling a "tactical knife" is just using a selling gimmic-yes. But some respectable co are selling knives that jusyt give you a slight advantage in a, say, self defense situation.
Knives are also alot like guns different guns for different job. Same whit knives. A mossberg 500 is great for home protection, but a 10/22 is for ridding the yard of vermin, and a snub nosed revolvers great to carry. Very similar with knives.
Right tool for the right job. We are luckyto have some designers that make knives and guns that are capable of preformming multiple rolls very well.
-With tactical knives there is undoubtable hype, as well as an honest reality. It often becomes the neccesity of the reality the comes into question.

 

[Martin Swinkels]

Fisrt, I strongly feel that a black coated blade is an "mprovement"over nearly any knife. A blacked blade may make the knife less reflective, or sneaky, but that is basically all part of this "tactical b.s." that people are against. To me, a blackened blade does one thing, and does it well, It prohibits rust and corrotion of the blade. You have many people who refuse a coated blade and love a satin finish. That is an issue where someone is buyin a knife based on looks, as opposed to functionality. A black blade is functional.

So is a pink blade..
or a yellow one...
So why black again?

Another advantage of a coating can be that it reduces friction..
But why black?

 

[cross creek]

Glad to see this discussion. "Tactical" and "self defense" are terms that are bandied about a lot on most knife forums. Admittedly I am now retired from active duty, so my knives cut newspaper articles, string, etc for the most part, but I was usually in a lot less peaceful places up until a couple of years ago, both in uniform and in civies, and I developed a few opinions about knives. First, I would never want to have to use any knife as a defensive weapon--they put one too close to the attacker (who either has a firearm or a bigger knife, believe me), they tie up one hand that might be put to better use (like holding a brick, piece of pipe, or other large, blunt object that will do the job better), and finally, I tend to buy knives I like, and if I ever had to injure/kill with it, it would either be taken into evidence or ditched, depending on the circumstances, so I would lose it. Knives in combat/covert action are most often used for dispatching sentries, noisy, injured enemies, etc. For that use, a nice strong fixed blade is better suited than a folder (blood is messy and gunks up the works--kind of takes fancy locks and autos out of the equation. Most military/security/intel types need a knife that is a good tool, just like civilians. This can mean different things to different people, depending on the tasks at hand. Lots of knives are equipped to do needful things, like break glass, cut shroud lines or seatbelts quickly. Personally, I've always had a SAK somewhere nearby, usually one of the alox "Soldier" types, although I have recently come to like the discontinued GAK/Trooper model quite a lot. Which brings me to my last point--most places we go as civilians (or trying to look like one), there are local law enforcement officers around. Never wanted to spend time in jail, especially a middle eastern or latin american one. Many of the knives available now just scream "weapon" to LEO's. Not saying they aren't cool, useful tools, just that they could lead to trouble when you least want it. SAKs are, for the most part, one of the knives least likely to get you thrown in prison just for having one. They are also: useful, with a huge variety of tools to choose from; readily available almost anywhere in the world, should you lose yours or need to ditch it, or abuse it; and, reasonably priced, so you don't have to baby it--which I find myself doing with pricier knives, no matter how tough they are.

 

[Gringogunsmith]

Friend just got back from training Iraqi Riot Police. When he said he needed a knife to cut seatbelts with a window breaker I sent him a Spyderco Assist.

OMG a real world operator using a knife without a Point for sentry elimination!

He was there for 1 year and the knife did everything he asked of it and more. Someone did not want to step out of the vehicle when they stopped it? Smash the window, cut the seatbelt, and drag them out. Opened MRE's, Cut Paracord, and he had a Whistle to Blow Always got a smile thinking about a ex-West Point football player, Airborne Ranger, 6'4" 240lbs blowing the Spyderco Assist Whistle.

A battery powered Sawzall would be a good choice..

 

[STR]

I don't particularly care for the word 'tactical' and I sometimes have to laugh at some of the so called 'tactical' knives that come into my shop for various repairs with their flimsy locks and so so grips. I've seen some that are obvious cheapo junk and some that are sold by reputable makers and are also junk. There are good ones out there though. The sad fact is, that some think that if they color the handle in camo and give the blade a wicked look that they can then market it as a ready made trench digger, survival tool I guess but in my experience you can make good hunting knives just as tactical as a lot of these knives being sold to the public and many times for far less $ investment.

In my opinion most guys would be better off to just buy them a good Buck 110 at Wal Mart or better yet Kmart since they are now selling the newer Buck 110T models, at least I call them that. The new ones have upside down Ts on them behind the 110 and they are the new 'Edge tech' ones with much better blades. (at least where I live) These "T" models come with the much better shaving sharp edges and a different better edge angle for the bevel for the same price as the old ones still in some stores. For $29.95 plus tax it isn't a bad deal really in a heavy duty folder.

If you really want to update it and make it more tactical then you can do what I've done for several forum members as well as my own 110 and put a thumb stud and pocket clip on it. What you have afterwards is perhaps one of the best heavy duty folders around. These knives are still 'hand me down quality made American classics' even if the blade steel is 420HC. Truthfully I like the edge my 110 has kept, so Buck or Paul Bos rather is doing something right with this steel.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3675716&postcount=77

STR

 

[Siggyhk]

Mrrrtn, if you want a pink blade on your knife, I'm sure you can have one made. I personally wouldn't mind certain other color coatings for knives, but black seems the obvious choice in general. Camo is an example of a multi colored coating. I must say that I do perfer the appearance of most black blades too though, but the main point is that any coating is an improvement to me. A good clear coating would be fine too. Untill they perfect an awsome rustless steel, I'll take mine as coated as possible. And that has nothing to do with deanimation.

 

[DaTrueDave]

So is a pink blade..
or a yellow one...
So why black again?

Another advantage of a coating can be that it reduces friction..
But why black?

Because the black (like white) matches every other color?

Because, for discreet usage, or for mall ninjas, black doesn't reflect as much light?

If you had to pick only one color with which to coat the blade of the knife that you want to sell to as many people as possible, what color would YOU pick?

 

[M Wadel]

If you had to pick only one color with which to coat the blade of the knife that you want to sell to as many people as possible, what color would YOU pick?

deanimation-black

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

If you had to pick only one color with which to coat the blade of the knife that you want to sell to as many people as possible, what color would YOU pick?

Magenta/periwinkle zebra stripe camo. . .

I like Black ok, or green, or tan, or gray. The only type of coating I really can't stand at all is rainbow.

I also don't care when it gets scuffed and scratched. I think it is silly to have a coated blade if you are worried about scuffing it up.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

I don't know what tactical is supposed to mean. Just a buzzword for marketing, really.
People used knives for everything they do now for all of history before someone applied the word tactical. I like knives that are sturdy and well built. Is that "tactical"? Personally, I think it is a word very much overused. Just like the word "Extreme".

 

[Martin Swinkels]

If you had to pick only one color with which to coat the blade of the knife that you want to sell to as many people as possible, what color would YOU pick?

That depends on the tasks I have in mind for the knife.
If I wanted to make a dedicated SAR-knife I wouldn't pick an urban-camo coating (like the SAR from SRKW for instance).
I'd like it to be as bright as possible so I can see it when I drop it.. But hey, that's just me.. I like to drop things.

:thumbup:

 

[Siggyhk]

I know it seems bout time for this thread to drift off into the realm of arcive life, but I just wanted to add one more thing.

To me, (not a trainned martial artist, or a soldier), a knife only becomes tactical at the point of design. The color is just something that happens after the fact. Perhaps it's type of sheath may also add to a knife's use as a "tactical tool". But generally it's the knife's shape that dictates whether or not it's tactical, or a weapon. This is obviously not to say that a tool knife can't be used as a weapon, or vice versa.

 

[DeathByCactus]

I don't read the names of knives at first... I usually check by design, then I check what the materials are, then I check the name and price .

Besides I tend to ignore the word tactical when I see it. I see tactical as per application, not in general like most knives are advertised. Personally nothing gets more tactical then a ICICLE! Stab someone in the eye and watch the evidence melt away....lol ...joking.

 

[Siggyhk]

Yup. "Tactical" is nothing more than a word. A word that has become an annoyance to most of the knife community, understandably. I'm sick of typing it myself. But to those who really understand, they need to see that word as nothing more than a single discriptive word. There are tons of "tactical knives" for sale, but to look for a knife sold as a "tactical knife", and because it's a "tactical knife" is almost always a bad idea.

 

[SonicBlade]

As for the color thing, my personal preferences are the black blades for looks. As to their purpose, the anti-rust thing is a valid point. I guess the 'non-reflective' thing is overhyped and oversold; but to a certain extent it does help. I mean don't use it to squeeze extra dollars from your customer, but if you gave me the exact same 2 knives, I'd take the one in black just for that little bit more functionality of not reflecting light, assuming I'm going on some covert night mission (yeah right, but just for argument's sake).

We get the most suitable camo uniform to suit the environment, camo up all bare skin, even small areas like ears (I used to get dropped for always missing my ears), and it doesn't matter if we wield a pink knife? Or even a regular 'reflective' steel knife?

With regards to 'tactical' applications, I'd say the question isn't "Why black?", It's "Why not?" (for daily use and collecting, I recognise that coatings can get damaged and scratch and make the knife look ugly). Just don't put a premium dollar on it just cuz its black. But I really can't see anything wrong with a black blade.

 

[DGG]

Does this mean I should not use my $2 gas station "black" blade if I get called up to go to Iraq and fight?

 

[DGG]

A battery powered Sawzall would be a good choice..

GGGSmith-

I knew I liked you!

Give me my Sawzall and my Husqvarna 24" chainsaw and watch out! There is nothing I couldn't cut. And quickly.

 

[Sword and Shield]

I look at it very simply. My great-uncle was in the 17th Airborne (517 PIR) during World War Two, got himself 2 Purple Hearts and a Silver Star, and I know what he carried. A simple dagger and a Camillus 4-blade. It was good enough for a jump into Normandy, a slippie is good enough today!

 

[lukaszki]

What about new Surefire Delta knife - 3,4" folder with built in cord/harness cutter, screwdriver, wrench, glass breaker and wire cutter... and its not even black (the blade is beadblasted I guess) but its got 1/8" thick frame. Is it tactical enough? Soon they will show fixed blade with similar looks and functions.

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

 

[JWBirch]

The No. 1 tactical folder in VietNam was the Buck 110. It was and is strong and well built, and reliable. The only person anybody I've ever known to have seen someone killed with a folding knife in combat watched a Latin American Special Forces soldier stab a terrorist in the neck multiple times with a Buck 110 knockoff. Cut his hand up good in the process when the knife got bloody and slipery. My buddy gave the guy his CRK NRW after that, IIRC.

So far in this thread we have a CRKT and Buck 110 knockoff as factually as opposed to theoretically lethal weapons, and most here would agree that the second one is far from a first choice. The CRKT on the other hand, has a substantial choil, as the flipper prevents the hand from slipping up when stabbing. That's pretty important stuff!

If a knife is advertised as tactical and doesn't fit the bill, that's a sucker's problem, and a corporate failure of ethics. It's threads like this that help dispel the hype.

I like that people are suggesting that tactical is as tactical does. Slipjoints are tactical at the stock brokers office. Blaze orange G-10 is tactical on civilian mountain rescue operation. Pearl handles are tactical at an NRA fundraiser. Matte coatings are tactical on carbon steel blades in damp or hostile environments. Stainless is tactical for sea-borne operations.

Traditionally tactical knives, in the hostile environment sense of the word, should simply be strong knives well built from quality materials. Strider, Draper, Buck-Strider are among the strongest built tactical knives. Hinderer, Chris Reeve, Microtech, MOD, and Severtech are among the highest quality tactical knives. Benchmade makes a very nice knife, but compare their .115" thick blade stock to .125", .150", and 3/16" for the SMF and superiority becomes glaringly obvious. The argument must include that the AXIS lock is among the strongest locks on the market, but this would generally not be decisive against the competition's advantages. Window punches and seatbelt cutters are brilliant on quality knives, less so on lesser quality knives. I say this because the SOG was included above, but if that knife is used much at all, it's seatbelt cutter function will not work well and a standard pocket knife that uses a steel that actually holds an edge for more than 15" of cardboard (ok, that's a bit facetious, but my point is made) will work much better. I was happy to see the MOD MK1s being issued to SF medics a while back. But don't for a minute think that a knife with an NSN is better than one without. I was issued a Gerber Gator, a fine cub scouts knife but not so great for keeping an edge in combat.