Taiwan Spyderco's and American manufacturing.

[sharp_edge]

There is one person here spewing hate speech. Who that person is, I will let others judge. Now I am out.

 

[mb>]

If I might use a case in point: Boeing....The all American airplane manufacturer.
~Has ALL of their primary flight controls designed and integrated in Wolverhampton, England.
~Builds and tests those flight controls in the Baguio, Philippines and Suzhou, China.
~Has their servos designed, built and made in Tewkesbury, England.
~Has their software developed in Bangalore, India
~Buys their titanium from Russia and China.
.....But that 787 that rolls out the end of the line in Seattle is all American, right?

Point I'm making is: once you tug too hard on the thread of 'Made in X', it unravels real fast..... If it's being made by a reputable company and the QA/QC is up to snuff, then I could care less about where the thing was made.

Then again- I'm British- We were trading copper smelted at the Great Orme, Wales for Persian enamel 4000 years ago.....We've had bit longer to get used to globalisation than you chaps in the Colonies.

:thumbup: You posted a more detailed version of where I was going...it's just not as simple as the home base of the brand. It's pretty much a losing proposition to attempt to "buy American," though I do believe in buying local when possible. There is material and labor in every product. And there are very, very few (any?) products sold today that are 100% made in America - labor and material. (Someone mentioned TV's...Philips was the last made in USA that I know of.)

What's more American than Ford? OK, now tell me what % of a Ford is material sourced in the USA? I have seen some figures on this, but I don't recall the detail. I can assure you it's far less than 100%.

If you buy a Toyota made in America (Kentucky?), are you buying made in Japan or USA?? How about a Glock made in Georgia? Some people think where the profits end up is the most important element. But where are the jobs?

So bottom line...you're probably supporting the global economy as a consumer whether you like it or not.

 

[PineChaos]

Spyderco has customers in all corners of the globe. To expect them to cater to you just because you never took basic economics and think they're not "supporting Americans" is ridiculous.
Of course, this type of chest pounding, conceited nationalism is clearly the new norm in this neck of the woods: So carry on.
Maybe one day they'll find a cure for arrogance.

 

[BMCGear]

Hi Elly's Pa,

I'm pleased that you are so pro American. I understand and agree with America first. We fly a Garrison flag in front of our factory. We have been growing our US production facility for many years beginning in the mid 90s with some antiquated equipment and untrained workers. Often while our competitors were moving models over seas.

I will say that every Spyderco knife is 100% hands on by Eric and myself. Even collaboration designs are thoroughly gone through. Designs, steels, parts, materials, tolerances, makers, etc. are all Spyderco. The demand for our knives is greater than our ability to produce in Golden. It's very difficult for us to find makers with the passion and skill necessary to meet our standards. Those that do are quite proud of the fact that they can build for Spyderco. They work hard for us, and you.

The profit made from the knives made by our partners over seas, goes to pay our US staff, and grow equipment and talent. We extend our best effort to conduct business in an honest, fair and proper manner where we do business. Perhaps being able to provide quality product for our customers, which we couldn't do without partners, might carry more weight that shipping jobs overseas?

sal

First off, as the starter of this thread I do appreciate the dialogue here. Different opinions make the world a beautiful place.

Sal,

I appreciate your openness. I ended up not going with the SpydieChef as I wanted a more traditional Spyderco and I bought a Golden made Para 2. I really love that knife and it was hard to choose between it and other models. I'm leaning towards a Sage 5 for office carry and will proudly carry a quality made Taiwan Spyderco because it supports the global economy that supports American workers.

A guy I met at the pawn shop yesterday had a tenacious with a Spyderedge. He said he has cut steel with the knife and doeant care; toughest knife he's ever owned.

I've owned many brands of production knives but Spyderco is turning out to be my favorite now.

 

[mycough]

If you want a gayle bradley and have an issue with Taichung, buy a custom GB.
Dude you don't understand, and I have not the time or inclination to educate you. Check your car parts for a start, there forums for your hooey but this ain't it.
I am out a here, gonna go flick my we 606 and my van heerden m44.
Russ

 

[mb>]

First off, as the starter of this thread I do appreciate the dialogue here. Different opinions make the world a beautiful place.

Sal,

I appreciate your openness. I ended up not going with the SpydieChef as I wanted a more traditional Spyderco and I bought a Golden made Para 2. I really love that knife and it was hard to choose between it and other models. I'm leaning towards a Sage 5 for office carry and will proudly carry a quality made Taiwan Spyderco because it supports the global economy that supports American workers.

A guy I met at the pawn shop yesterday had a tenacious with a Spyderedge. He said he has cut steel with the knife and doeant care; toughest knife he's ever owned.

I've owned many brands of production knives but Spyderco is turning out to be my favorite now.

Enjoy that PM2! It's a great knife. They're plenty fun to play with, but the more you use it the more you'll like it. Full flat grinds have about ruined me for any other type of fancy grind.

 

[Fanglekai]

At first I didn't like the "Taichung" stamp on my Gayle Bradley. After carrying and using it extensively for years I see it as a mark of quality. My Taichung Spydercos are my favorite models. In the end they're all Spydercos and they're awesome. That's what matters.

 

[ThePeacent]

Just my $0.02

In my country (Spain) we had this brand, Aitor, which had been since 1939 making traditional cutlery, from mountain knives to military issued fixed blades, machetes, etc. They were "the brand" to refer when searching for quaity national blades. In 2003 they finally succumbed to globalisation and foreign competence and rivalry, and the original owners had to sell most profits, and move production to China.
In the end they improved their QC and manufacturing (they had many flaws and defects the first years) and whille I was hesitant to buy more Aitor products as a result, now I feel I'm still helping a true classic in our cutlery because some parts, F&F and sheath components and elements are still employing Spanish manufacturing and jobs.
It's the least evil of all, and even I feel sad and deceived by these changes and overseas rivalry, but in the world we live now there's almost nothing we can do there as individuals.

I buy Spydercos, and Byrds as well. My six favorite Spydies (of a total of 11) are made in Japan/Taiwan FWIW, and the Byrd Cara Cara I carry is one of the best value folders I have ever handled or used.
YMMV, but I feel all this nationalism and Asia-hate just hurts the hobby and slows the progress of the companies that resort to overseas production, which nowadays are the vast majority I believe.

 

[Knifeoholic]

I have Spyders from Taiwan, Japan, Golden, and even picked up an Ambitios from the Chinese factory. All of them are great if you ask me. And now that I think about it, my top 3 favourite knives are made in Japan and Taiwan. (Stretch, GB1 and Sage). The quality and the fit and finish of them is top notch in my books! Basically, anywhere Spyderco decides to make knives is cool with me!

 

[Sal Glesser]

Please try to remember that Eric and I have the final word on every detail of every knife.

sal

 

[Cursum Perficio]

Please try to remember that Eric and I have the final word on every detail of every knife.

sal

Whatever that final word was on my Slysz Bowie, I gotta say it worked a treat :thumbup:

 

[GenericJohn]

I suspect the difference is time. Nobody in "the knife community" gets upset about knives that copy the "general style" of a Buck 110, or the fact that every slipjoint maker (or darn close to it) has or has had a version of the Barlow knife and dozens of other patterns. Nobody complains about companies using the Walker style liner lock, or Chris Reeve style frame lock either. Where the lines get drawn are copying the "look and feel" of knives still covered by design patents, features still covered by utility patents, and items protected by trademark. Ganzo breaks all of those rules.

Yes. The minimum time to market for an imitator/replica is a function of cost of entry and the complexity of the technology. Knives are generally much easier to duplicate than a watch (i.e., Seiko vs. Rolex), a gun (i.e., Ruger vs. Colt), or an automobile (i.e., early Japanese vs. American and European). In addition a single knife craftsman can develop the skills to create a complete product, versus the larger teams required in other domains. Often, a master knife maker merely needs to SEE a knife to be able to duplicate it perfectly within days. [i.e., Forged in Fire as now on the History Channel.]

I'm reminded of the quote popularized by Henry Kissinger: "Academic politics are so vicious precisely because the stakes are so small."

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/08/18/acad-politics/

So, many new knives move a 500 year old style a few millimeters or bring back an old style... Or, they adapt basic technology from other domains for a new locking mechanism (which can indeed be truly insightful). Or, like Spyderco, a builder popularizes ergonomics and completely new ways of thinking about knives. But, the underlying technology remains inherently simple so the economics remains "small" and emotions run high.

I'm just the messenger here; not defending the copycats but explaining the process.

 

[seeverscpa]

Just bubbling under the surface here are the fundamentals of capitalism. Those tenants dictate the maximization of shareholder wealth, above all else. I'm not saying that's the only purpose a corporation strives to fill, but it is the core. You can't have a "made in the USA" discussion without considering the role the markets play. Profitability, market share, going concern... the list of fundamental business considerations that have to be taken into account are endless in these decisions. And that's before the endless list of social considerations are vetted.

Sal we will never know, or even understand all the decisions you make, have made, or will come to make - we should consider ourselves lucky in that regard. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[blade man]

Whatever that final word was on my Slysz Bowie, I gotta say it worked a treat :thumbup:

Gotta agree. My Slysz Bowie is shockingly well made. I've said this for a while: it's not well made for a foreign knife, it's well made for any knife. If it was made domestically, it'd be at least $100 more. It's one of the only knives I've handled that can compete with a Sebenza in build quality. Is it as well made? No, and my point isn't the direct comparison, but to point out that it's so close that it will make you analyze your cost/benefit beliefs. The Taichung manufacturer (JOTI?) is putting out world-class knives. The Slysz Bowie, Techno, and Southard have all been just incredibly well made knives.

I prefer American made, sure, but I'm not going to limit myself to not enjoying fantastic quality made elsewhere.

 

[ShepardCC]

Spyderco in my opinion is the best knife company in the world. They offer more steel choices than any other company. They offer more styles and options than anyone else. They offer more locking options than anyone else. They have achieved many many great things in the knife industry. Doing what they do takes incredible time, effort, and resources.
This is why they have many factories around the world. To offer you so many choices.
If every knife was produced outside the country as a means to save money and increase profits then you can say whatever bad things you want about them not supporting America. However this is not the case. They invest lots of money into all their facilities and as Sal himself said, all knives pass through his hands before being released.
So he is a great Stewart to American workers.

I personally own at least 2 knives from every single factory they own.

Italy. Lionspy & Lil Lionspy. Day hiker & Forester

Seki City. Many different Stretches. Breeden, Superhawk, Superleaf, Battlestation.

China. Ambitious, Persistence, & Tenacious

Taichung. Hahaha I laugh because this is one of my favorite facilities that makes my favorite Spydercos and I own so many with the Taichung stamp and I'm very proud to own them. Why? Because they have the Spyderco Stamp on the front and they are of exceptional quality.

Tuff, Southard, Myrtle, SpydieChef, Techno, Chubby, Bradley, Mamba, Tighe Stick, Domino, Dice, Szabo, Sage series, etc

Golden Colorado. My other super favorite facility.
Manix, PM2, Native, Military, Swick, Pygmy warrior, Mule teams, Wolfspyder, Dodo etc

All incredible knives. Each unique, beautiful, and useful in their own way.

I was at your facility Sal for the second sale for the first time this year and It was an awesome experience. Your employees were happy, helpful, and great to talk to. They all offered me a job there because I knew so much about all the knives. I loved it there. I was so happy to see how much everyone there loved their jobs. That means they have an awesome boss.
I didn't get to meet you personally, but I hope I do in the future. Thank you so very much for giving so much to the knife community. Thank you!

 

[Sal Glesser]

Just bubbling under the surface here are the fundamentals of capitalism. Those tenants dictate the maximization of shareholder wealth, above all else. I'm not saying that's the only purpose a corporation strives to fill, but it is the core. You can't have a "made in the USA" discussion without considering the role the markets play. Profitability, market share, going concern... the list of fundamental business considerations that have to be taken into account are endless in these decisions. And that's before the endless list of social considerations are vetted.

Sal we will never know, or even understand all the decisions you make, have made, or will come to make - we should consider ourselves lucky in that regard. Ignorance is bliss.

Hi Seeverscpa,

It's kinda funny, but in the end, that's what Eric and I mostly do. But we have the experience and knowledge to use our own eyes, hands and minds to determine which is the best decision.

sal

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi ShepardCC,

Thanx much for kind words. Glad you enjoyed your venture into our world. I was traveling and missed the 2nd sale this year, but it's always an interesting experience, which wed began in the mid 80's.

Though I must say that we do not own the factories we work with overseas. They are independently owned family businesses that we partner with.,

sal

 

[ShepardCC]

Hi ShepardCC,

Thanx much for kind words. Glad you enjoyed your venture into our world. I was traveling and missed the 2nd sale this year, but it's always an interesting experience, which wed began in the mid 80's.

Though I must say that we do not own the factories we work with overseas. They are independently owned family businesses that we partner with.,

sal

My pleasure Sal. I'm going to try to get to more of the sales when they come up. It's hard since I live in Michigan but it was fun. Next time I'll stay longer and bring my skis.

 

[IR192]

Hi ShepardCC,

Thanx much for kind words. Glad you enjoyed your venture into our world. I was traveling and missed the 2nd sale this year, but it's always an interesting experience, which wed began in the mid 80's.

Though I must say that we do not own the factories we work with overseas. They are independently owned family businesses that we partner with.,

sal

Sal,
It is very telling that you should call them independently owned family businesses, that you partner with. It shows the level of respect you hold for the diversity they bring to the table, and that is well reflected in your product lines. There truly is no one else currently in the game with such a varied lineup, or global approach to bringing quality designs and makers to the market.

 

[stabman]

The knife I plan on getting in the new year is the Euroedge.
A European inspired blade, designed by an American, manufactured in Taiwan for an American company, to be purchased by a Canadian.
Planetary unity at its finest.