Take a look and tell me what you think.

Bill Martino

Bill Martino

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Mar 5, 1999
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Here's a couple of items made by Tibetan refugees in Nepal. These are folks who fled Tibet to escape persecution and worse at the hands of the Communists. I figure maybe a million of them stayed in Nepal. Others migrated to India and all over the world for that matter. Those in Nepal are trying to earn a livlihood in a country that has an 80% under and unemployment rate -- not easy. Some of the Tibetans are fine craftsmen and these are two items they make to sell to try to support themselves.

The two circular items are small temple bells. The writing on them says, "Om mani Padme Om, so I'm told. The other item is a prayer wheel. Inside is a prayer written on a long strip of paper -- maybe six feet of prayer. Every time the wheel turns the prayer goes up. Saves lots of talking. Another item they make is a white goat skin "jola" purse which is very attractive. If you check the thread "Bill and the boss at Swayambunath" you can see me carrying one and it will give you a rough idea of appearance.

I'd be willing to offer these as a standard HI product. If these three items work I could add more.

Price would have to be roughly:

Bells -- $20
Prayer Wheel -- $40
"Jola" or goatskin purse -- $60

Give me some feedback. The Tibetans also make a good dagger called a "Thee", pronounced simply "T", so this post still is related to knife possibilites. The Thee, by the way, is carried around the neck -- chain and swivel, usually silver scabbard and about a 10 inch dagger, sharped two edges. Don't know what the cost would be for this but I figure $150 should get a fairly decent one into your hands.

Bill
 
Well...at least in California there's a *huge* new-age subculture that would just go ape over the above. I...hmm...don't think they hang out here much though
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But...a few newsgroup postings to the direct URL for this thread might work. In case Bill does that, let me explain for any "non-knife" people just showing up: Bill imports Nepalese knives and swords of *incredible* quality "straight from the source" - he married into a Nepalese family, converted to Bhuddism, the business is actually owned by his Ghurka father-in-law in Nepal. Meaning *any* goods he brings in from there, cutlery or otherwise is NOT going to be the usual "huge pile of crap" shipped over cheap by uncaring import/export companies looking to make a quick buck. If you're new to Bladeforums goto the main Himalayan Imports forum and pull up a thread titled "Email from India" for more info, or most any of the threads for that matter.

Jim March
 
Hi Jim:

All I'm doing with this post is asking for very valued opinions from a group that I know has a great appreciation for handcrafted items and great common sense.

Plus they are all members of the HI fraternity! And what they say counts a lot.

Bill
 
I live in an area with a big new-age market, too, near Amherst, Massachusetts. Occasionally some Tibetan work like that shows up in a store and it sells immediately. There's a big demand here for the real thing, whether it's prayer wheels, saddle rings, prints, all kinds of stuff. I have a couple of woodblock prints made by a monastery that escaped across the border more or less whole and they're making prints in Nepal now. I'd love to get more if I could, but the store owners tell me it's impossible to get a regular supply out past the Nepalese government. The only way they can get it is to go to Nepal as tourists and they're allowed to bring a limited amount of stuff per person out of the country when they leave. One local store owner has four small children, so with his wife and himself they have six people -- they've been to Nepal twice and they're talking about going again soon....

So if you can export it I think you can find a market for it, no problem at all. I've seen both bells and prayer wheels for sale here and the next time I stop into that store they're gone. Saddle rings and other jewelry go even faster; you might look into that.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
OK Bill, I'll play devil's advocate here. You're talking a totally different market here with this stuff and a different kind of buyer. That means a different distribution much more geared to a retail audience. The same with the possibilities about India. You sound like your up to your eyeballs with just keeping ahead with HI and now you want to put the same quality control on more swords, tulwars, bells, bags and whistles? I applaud your desire to bring business to both the Indians and the displaced Tibetans, but can you really do them justice if you can't run these new sources as tightly as you have with HI? I would buy a new Indian pana butta khukuri if it had the same high standards as HI. Some of my best knives are Indian, but I just think you're asking for problems while searching for perfection.

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JP
 
John, given the typical horrendous standards of the average exporter from that part of the world, even if Bill couldn't give a 100% effort like he's been doing with the Khukuris HI would still be a MASSIVE improvement regardless of the product.

I mean, what kind of moron ships huge piles of $5 horrendous-grade ripoffs of the Buck 110 over from Pakistan for sale in flea markets? Think about it. The Pakistanis *can* produce better goods, hell, there's a whole sideline in gunmaking there that NEVER makes it to the US, I've heard stories about some of that stuff and except for little problems like the NFA rules
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I'd *love* to score some. There's a common Pakistani backyard-shop-built critter known as a "Cyclops"(?), something about a .357(?) revolver surrounding a 12ga 6" smoothbore like some kinda modernized LeMat that sounds *awesome*
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They're making *nukes* fer chrissakes, what the hell is with all these cheap knife-like objects? Why the huge piles of bad Khukuris, for that matter?

The religious stuff IS mostly a whole 'nuther market but I think it can be reached over the net just he's doing with the blades now. UseNet's alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan, talk.religion.buddhism would be a start...he's already got the infrastructure in place, so why not?

Jim March
 
Jim, you've got a good point, but I just cannot imagine HI putting its' name on some of that stuff, especially anything of poor quality. You're reading this Bill, where are our opinions taking you? Jim, I have associates who have tread this part of the world and have been to the Pakistani 'gun bazaars'. Everything from .44 derringers and AKMs up to Oerlikon AA guns and ANYTHING can be made. All by hand. All in very crude conditions. And all incredibly well engineered, considering. Sounds interesting to say the least

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JP
 
Jac, don't think we can get phurbas in CPM420V.

And, this is all in a test stage. We won't let it overwhelm us no matter what. Getting spread too thin is bad for everybody.

The Nepal government is tough to deal with but there are ways.

Bill
 
John, I very much doubt low-quality goods are being contemplated here. Bill and co. have agents onsite that can oversee quality issues at the source, that's a HUGE advantage no matter what they import. Bill is himself Buddhist, most of the staffers over there probably are too, so these items are going to be of "personal interest" just like the Khukuris.

There's no reason not to deal in 'em, only thing is most of us ain't gonna be interested. I personally don't collect art and I'm not Buddhist although I have the highest respect for 'em...except Zen leaves me flat. Divorcing morality from spirituality strikes me as a BAD idea; most forms including all the ones from that part of the world don't. Zen does. But I digress
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Jim March
 
Do you have any pictures of these neck daggers?
Aaron

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Why did you stab that girl?
You won't believe this, but I had too much coffee!
-Edmond by David Mamet
aaronm@cs.brandeis.edu
 
Bill, take a look at the Sikh thread. I'd probably be interested in a kirpan if the same kind of information you provide on the khukuri could be provided on the kirpan.

I just realized that a large part of why I buy your khukuris is the people and culture and history and spirit with which you've endowed them. And of course the quality and authenticity.

I wouldn't require the depth of knowlege about the kirpan or thee as the khukuris, but enough to help me appreciate what they are and where they come from is what sets such knives apart from the Wal-Mart special.

This is assuming the Sikhs would be willing to sell the real thing and not just the tourist models. Same with the thees.

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Russ S
 
Rusty, the kirpan is out of my league. Thees are Tibetan and Buddhist oriented and I can get all the info we need on these. Also, Kami can find Tibetan makers who can make us a top quality thee. We wouldn't know who to go to for kirpans.

Kami is going out this week to search for a decent thee and he'll send it. When it arrives I'll get some pix and post them along with any info he sends with the knife.

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 22 March 1999).]
 
We called Kami this weekend and he is out searching for the bells, prayer wheels and jolas. And, he will scout for a good Tibetan thee and send it. If there's interest he will seach out a decent thee maker and we will have a few made.

Don't know when we will see the thee but the other stuff should be here in three or four weeks.

Bill
 
I'm closing shop but I'll get this up and tend to details later.

Today I received the bells and prayer wheels -- quick work on Kami's part! Kami is having the jolas made and will ship them when they are complete.

I'll be shipping some bells and prayer wheels tomorrow to those who have ordered them. If I don't have your mailing address please email me this info.

I'll post pix of prayer wheels tomorrow. All are different.

Uncle Bill
 
Jim`s post is interesting as I consider Zen to be the highest manifestation of the greater vehicle.

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