Take a look at this crack and tell me if you're thinking what I'm thinking

t1mpani

t1mpani

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Jun 6, 2002
Messages
5,536
Hello,

I was asked by a friend to re-handle this old Cold Steel Trailmaster, and have come across something which I think may be a project-killer. The thing was found some years after having been lost in a barn, and was absolutely COVERED in rust. I let it soak for several days in Evaporust (which I've used for a long time without issue) and when it came out, I wiped the blade off and found this crack---it looks to me almost like a nickel-sized section of the blade has started to de-laminate from the rest, which is interesting as this isn't supposed to be a laminated blade. Anyway, I'm worried that there could be major structural issues under this section, and perhaps the project isn't worth continuing. I realize nobody can just look at the thing and know for a fact what lies beneath but I'm interested in any thoughts on it. The first three pictures are just different angles of the same thing, where the last is a shot of some of the damage done to the spine of the knife from (it looks like) hammering. I'm wondering if somewhere in its past, the knife developed a crack (from torque due to the hammering) and was getting ready to experience a spiral fracture in the blade, and over time rust developed inside it. Has anyone ever seen a blade begin to fail in this way from blows to the spine? Obviously, hitting a steel blade with a steel hammer is absolutely stupid and I doubt many here do it, but do you think the theory holds any water?

Thanks for taking a look.

 
I was testing different quenchants on some old truck springs a couple years ago and I had a couple of fractures that looked alot like that, water was the quenchant, and im sure the steel was well above non-magnetic
 
#3 - what's that alligator textured section near the spine ??

That's a strange shaped crack ,what did they do to it ??
 
Not seeing the gator, but there are sections of pitting all over it. The knife has apparently seen lots of use/abuse from a variety of folks, according to the current owner. Wish (other than breaking it) I could think of a way to determine the depth/severity of the crack.

Edit to add: ah, you said "textured" and my brain turned it into "shaped". Yes, pitting.
 
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It looks very severe. I recently had a knife break (under heavy abuse) from the remains of a tiny stress riser crack that I believed I had ground out, and which even under magnification wasn't visible anymore at a high hand finish.


However, once the blade broke, which it did completely, but only after having been successfully batonned through numerous pieces of seasoned red oak split firewood with diameters equal to blade length (6ish inches) while striking the spine above the choil area, it revealed a 1/16" long black mark inside the blade, past where the crack had appeared to be dealt with.



Anyway, moral of the story is, that crack, is beyond bad. I wouldn't consider it safe to use at all. Definitely wouldn't waste effort putting another handle on. YMMV.
 
It looks to be a large stress crack located exactly in the vicinity of stress risers due to an abrupt dimensional change (i.e. ricasso). Whether the crack occurred before (inclusions/impurities in the base steel), during (improper heats/soaks/time durations), or after heat treating (abuse such as prying) probably will never be known. I don't believe that there is any way to repair the blade properly. Consider it as scrap.

Mike L.
 
I think Mike L. Is pretty much spot on. If the owner admits it's been heartily abused I would tend to think it's user error as the cause.
Either way its not worth investing time or materials in rehandling, as it's only likely going to fail badly at some point.
If the owner still wants to use it, I would relegate it to slicing only without abuse or prying.
 
That's kind of where my opinion was headed, but I was hoping to be talked out of it. ;)

Given that the owner really and truly is an outdoorsman who will engage in fairly frequent minimalist living, and thus has knives as tools rather than toys, I'll stop trying to figure out how to outsmart the bad news and just deliver it. I think Cold Steel has started producing these in O1 (which is as good or better than the original 0170-6 in my opinion) maybe I can talk him into obtaining a new one---if not, I'll use the scales to re handle my Recon Scout that I bought a decade ago and haven't ever gotten around to!

Thanks everyone
Warren

Edit to add: now that I think of it, back during my Cold Steel buying days in the late 1990s, (when Camillus was producing their non-stainless knives ) I noticed inclusions/hollows in the steel on a couple of occasions, in the form of chipping that would occur over and over again during sharpening. This happened with both a Master Hunter and one of their "Red River" knives. I also had a Gurka kukri (the thick one) lose its tip during chopping on a fallen cedar tree, though it's only right to say that Cold Steel fell all over themselves making that right, getting a replacement to me before I'd even got my return packaged up to send back to the. Anyway, I wonder if they were the recipients of a bad batch of steel during that era.
 
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The general rule of failure analysis is; where no flaw exist, no failure can occur. It looks like the original flaw was on the corner of the ricasso and the plunge, and then radiated out from there. The chipping on the corner is most likely from the blade flexing and moving in the crack.

I don't think it can be saved as it is.
 
It looks to me like that blade was "tested" at some point. Cracked from lateral flex and chipped on the spine from hammering. Someone saw CS's "Proof" videos and had a go at it. Does your friend live a "warrior lifestyle" or sometimes wear a hockey mask?
 
t1mpani said:
Not seeing the gator, but there are sections of pitting all over it. The knife has apparently seen lots of use/abuse from a variety of folks, according to the current owner. Wish (other than breaking it) I could think of a way to determine the depth/severity of the crack.

Edit to add: ah, you said "textured" and my brain turned it into "shaped". Yes, pitting.
Click to expand...

The only way to determine the depth and severity of a crack is to have it magnifluxed. A good welding shop could do that for you.
 
Magnaflx isn't going to help that much. Break it and see.It can't be saved anyway [ it's dangerous to use ].

That 'alligator ' texture [a series of horizontal and vertical lines or cross hatched ] should not be there !! A small section , ~1/4" ,but significant !! That's not even a corrosion texture .
 
Mete... that's probably from the run of Cr0C0-D1LE steel the company tried out in the 90's. It was known to "snap" quite a bit.
 
No Hockey Masks, Rick...just a half-Cherokee who like to disappear into the wilds of Montana for weeks at a time. :)

Mete---ah, gotcha. I've no idea!

The owner has agreed to retire this one after seeing it---when I initially called him he was arguing that I could just shorten it to get rid of the bad spot; I told him I COULD but it'd be pretty damned short. :D

Thanks everyone again!
 
You could shorten it, bud. Cut it at the ricasso and grind a tang into it. Aren't those blades 9" or something? Sounds like a 4" hidden tang hunter skinner, to me.
 
Why sure! A 5/16" thick skinner, but that'll just give it that sturdy feeling. :)

Actually, it's thick enough to be a comfortable (to use) neck knife. I may have to talk him out of the remains...
 
I'm revisiting this thread because the Title is funny.

Sorry. in advance. I couldn't resist. The discussion has already degraded a bit from the original topic. Please carry on.

The blade is damaged beyond repair. Break it open and see if it is a metallurgical problem or an abuse issue.

Mike L.
 
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"I was cleaning off some crap and found a crack... now what do I do?"
"Need help with crack problem."
"I think I have a dirty crack issue."
"Look at my crack, please?"
 
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