Talon vs. Mean Street

Sergiusz :

Well, what causes the users to look for "the best knife"

You look for the best knife (or whatever) you can afford, for some this is more than others. It is not a complicated issue.

FF, no I have not used either model, however I have done a lot of work looking at cutting ability as a function of primary and secondary grinds and have determined that for the vast majority of materials the effect of the secondary (edge) grind is so dominant that it is all that really matters. Basically a small change in the acuteness of the edge grind can compensate for a much greater thicker stock.

For most things that you cut, they tend to open up as you slice through them or are simply not very stiff (rope, webbing, cardboard, flesh etc. ). Because of this they exert very little compressive force on any part of the blade besides the very edge. Therefore even very thick blades with thin edges will slice very well. This is why a 1/4" Battle Mistress can whittle wood very comparable to a 1/16" Deerhunter.

Some materials which don't work this way are thick vegetables like turnips, rubber, plastics and basically anything that will wedge itself around a knife. Deep chopping is obviously another exampe, however thick blades while having a lower penetration can also benefit from higher power swing techniques as well as a lower binding increasing your swing rate.

I just expressed my opinion without any intention to start endless discussion in topic "What is better - $300+ knife or $10- one?" Even less I had intention to offend anyone.

But this seems occurred, so I'm filling myself owe to explain my point of view and to ask for apologies, if possible of course.

Hoodoo, I don't want to call you a snob. I also don't want to show you the error of your way and I even don't know how many people are you representing saying "we" and "us". I'm expressing my own opinion only.
Of course you may pay twice and triple for a food deprived from calories, this is your right and your money. But please do not be surprised and offended if someone in Indochina or Africa will evaluate your conduct as he like, think you can guess what kind of evaluation it would be...
Your right is to fire up $100 bill to help yourself to fire your cigar but please do not be surprised or offended if someone will say - think you can guess what...

The same with the knives. Of course you may buy the $300, $3.000 or even $30.000 knife to use it as a machete (believe me, 1.000 layer Damascus will outperform each machete in the world) or as a chisels. But please don't be surprised or offended if I will evaluate this conduct as I like. This is my right as well as your right is to do with your knife or your money what do you want.

My attitude to knives is not free from snobbism also. I like to own good knives for some reasons:
* Handling comfort is first and foremost.
* Fascination with design and workmanship elegance is probably second. Yes, I'm utter knife nut and you don't need to torture me to force me confess to this.
* Pride of ownership is probably not the least. Owning $100 knife I'm feeling myself a small bit better than my friend who owns $10 knife. I'm somewhat civilized man and I can force myself to do not show this but I'm not able to force myself to do not feel this. Maybe someone can rule his feelings better...

But I never cheat myself that $100 knife will do my job instead of me. I can do the same job with $10 knife as well, maybe with less comfort, more effort with resharpening and far less pride of possession. I'm also too old to believe that "wonder" stuff exists at all, no matter is this a knife, car, gun, computer or wife.
And I hope I'm not committing any moral crime trying to make younger friends to realize this matter.

As to snobbism - think the limit above what it starts is very relative and can be another for each person. My snobbism limit in knife matter I have specified in my previous post. To be honest I can't to exclude that this is forced with material conditions. Maybe another living standard could cause me to rice this limit to $300, $1.000 or even higher.
Or maybe not...

I would like to stop this discussion at this point. Please forgive me if I have offended your feelings.

[This message has been edited by Sergiusz Mitin (edited 10-04-2000).]
Fish, have you looked at the Basic Three or five as an alternative? I trade for a Basic Three and while the adequate kydex sheath sorta sucks for daily IWB carry, Frank Sigman will soon rectify this for me, with a sheath similar to the one he makes for MOD for the Razorback. I had him add a nylon loop for the razor sheath and it rides deep IWB with excellent access, retention, and replacement, as well as comfort and invisibility. The sheath is completely comfortable in any pants I own with a blet as well and I guess I now have to part with the basic long enough to have it sheathed.

I don't know a damn thing about Talonite, but I really do not feel that my knowledge of whizzo blade material one versus whizzo blade material two is the issue. The Basic is unbreakable in my opinion. I do not see enough blade versus handle to break and this would not likely change in a five inch package. The handle is excellent in retention and comfort, and I have never handled a Talon, so I cannot comment. Rob S seems to build a quilty knife and puts a lot of thought into the daily operation of this knife, as does Jerry Busse. Overall, for utility purposes I would carry a better cuter, but if felt i would haev to stake my life on this thing, unbreakable counts for a lot.

You can pick up a basic I see for about $130 near retail and Frank Sigman will build you a heck of a sheath for about $40, leaving yuo with subsatntial beer and burger money afterwards. I also have this thing about carrying a knife I am proud of, but it has to be useable. All of the choices here are not in the high end collectible atmosphere, so beat the hell out em, but my own choice is these days a basic three, soon to be a mean street.
Originally posted by Sergiusz Mitin:

Hoodoo, I don't want to call you a snob. I also don't want to show you the error of your way and I even don't know how many people are you representing saying "we" and "us".[This message has been edited by Sergiusz Mitin (edited 10-04-2000).]


I guess I'm assuming that most of the people who follow these forums are interested in something besides a $2 machete with a broken handle, just like natives use to survive.

But what I don't understand is the direction this thread took. The original question concerned two specific knives. How we devolved into this discussion is a mystery to me. IMO, if FF wants to buy one of those two knives, that's his business. And I think we are entitled to discuss the merits of those knives, regardless of their costs.

Evidently you are concerned that people are paying too much for some knives. That may be but we (many of us, anyway) live in a free-market economy. FF can buy whatever he wants. No one is twisting his arm to buy a $200 knive. And if someone is selling EXACTLY comparable knives for a lot less money, then I'm sure he would buy one of those instead. I know I would. Knives sell for what the market bears. If people don't want to pay big bucks, prices would either come down or they would stop making the knives.

It would be a very boring world if the only knife everyone had was a mora and the only car was a volkswagon. The knife cuts, the car is transportation. Why should we want or need more? That is the question, isn't it? And my answer is that it makes life more interesting.


I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.

[This message has been edited by Hoodoo (edited 10-04-2000).]
BTW, Sergiusz, I'm really not trying to flame you. I just see this as a different issue that the original thread (besides disagreeing with you in principle
). Maybe you should start a thread something to the effect: "Are you getting what you pay for?" We've had threads like that before and they can be interesting.


I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
Originally posted by Sergiusz Mitin:

Well, what causes the users to look for "the best knife", "super steel" and another "wonder" stuff?
The desire to replace skills with hardware? Greatly probably...

If not that we all would have the same Buck 110 or not even that... There'd be 1 stainless & 1 non stainless steel to satisfy all the needs.
1 car, best suited for transportation needs, & I suspect that's a military truck, to transport more, efficiently, cheap...
In other words the world would be too gray w/o that everlasting quest for perfection

IMHO that's what makes things go forward.
Otherwise why would anyone bother to improve anything in the first auto? It was moving right?

The snobbism? I have $100 worth knife! Only? I have $300 worth knife! Who more?
Too bad if you really think that. How about paying the price to the maker who spent his time & effort to create that 300$+ knife?
Besides it's all buyers free will isn't it? Versus when there's the only 1 knife & nothing to choose from

Have Fun,

[This message has been edited by Gator97 (edited 10-04-2000).]
Getting back on topic...
, I just read the recent article in Blade on the Talon. It was a rave review. I want one!
It's now scribbled down on my list, right after Trace Rinaldi's TTKK.


I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.