Talonite or Titanium for blades?

L

Lynn Grififth Knives

Joined
Jul 30, 1999
Messages
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From what I have read it appears that Talonite and titanium may have similar properties in knife blades. Has anyone else seen similarities? Does anyone own both? They both appear to be softer than steels. Both easier to sharpen. Both more difficult to grind. Both expensive to buy. Is Talonite light like titanium is? Does one hold up better to cutting chores? They both are said to be corrosion proof. I have worked have made some knives with titanium blades. I have soem Talonite on order. I am trying to figure out if either of these materials will be worth the extra price, that I will have to charge my customers for them. What do you think?

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Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

My website
GriffithKN@aol.com


 
I only know what I read and the best information I have found thus far is on Rob's site here http://www.simonichknives.com/talonitemain.htm
Maybe it'll help
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Ingmar
 
Oh, and yes, I think it will be worth it to offer some models in talonite. If not for the qualities of the alloy, then simply for the uniqueness of having a knife with a talonite blade.
 
Lynn,
Talonite will make a far superior blade than titanium will. I bought a rather large quantity of mil spec 6AL6V Ti. It's the hardest Ti. that I have ever seen. I made several blades out of it and now only use it for scales and folder frames! It's edgeholding ability was terrible!
I am also waiting for some Talonite to arrive! I think that will be a material a knifemaker will HAVE to offer in the future.
I make parts at work out of stellite and from what Rob tells me, the Talonite should be easier to work with. Usually it's a knife that I can't wait for to arrive, not bar stock!!
Neil

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http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Meeting/5520/index.html

 
Arizona,
From what I have seen most (if not all) knifemakers using Talonite are adding $100 and up to the price of fixed blade knives for using it. After talking with Rob Simonich about the dificulty (and added abrasives expenses) in working with this alloy, and considering the price for the knifemaker to purchase it, as a knifemaker I understand the price increase. Do you as a consumer and end line user understand the $100 and up that it will add to the price of a knife? And do you think it is worth the added price? I would like to be able to offer the customer a choice, but at the same time I would not want them to ever think I was taking advantage of them with the price (which I would have little control over).

Thanks,

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Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

My website
GriffithKN@aol.com


 
Lynn,
I do understand the difference in tooling for "exotic" materials. I guess for something as tough as titanium or talonite, you'll have to switch to carbite or something. Personally, I understand the added expense to the knife maker and if I want a blade in such a material, I expect to pay a little more for it.
I am not a knife maker, but as a consumer I would imagine that a maker would not offer his/her entire line in "normal" steel and talonite. Due to it's molecular makeup, it will have characteristics that will benefit certain types of knives more than others. Like we've seen on Titanium, the advantages for the normal knife is minimal, but it accommodates specialized environments well. Talonite seems to be a little better suited in terms of edge holding ability but I can't see the need to offer say a folder in this material. The frame maybe, but not the blade. Fixed blades, choppers, battle axes would be what I'm guessing the main use will be. Nevertheless, if someone makes me a nice tanto out of talonite, I'll take it
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Including the extra cost over the regular steel. Something about having something different. I'm sure you know what I mean.

Ingmar
 
If you use the search function, you should be able to find five threads which I found particularly useful:

In the Reviews Forum:

9/15/99 Talonite TTKK Review


In the Shoptalk Forum:

11/28/99 Talonite's drawbacks?


In the General Forum:

8/15/99 Talonite Opinions - worth the bucks????

5/6/99 How tough is Talonite?

10/14/99 Talonite vs. 420V?????

All of them have good info, but the 5/6/99 thread opened by Rudy is, IMO, one of those "classics" on BF. Includes great postings by great folks: usual suspects like Cliff Stamp, Walt Welch, Rob Simonich, bald1 ... and a rare appearance by Doc Ron Hood!

I'm waiting on a Talonite blade currently, so cannot speak from experience. But the consensus suggests that Talonite and titanium are two vastly different species: Talonite's edge-holding appears to outpace even the CPM steels, with very good toughness (although there are a few caveats against grinding too thin an edge!). Meanwhile, titanium delivers ultra-prybar toughness, but with the edgeholding ability (at best) of 440A (according to Rick Schultz of Mission Knives).

Suffice to say that lots of reputable folks on this Forum have used both Talonite and ti, and the latter is usually praised only for the most particular uses ("EOD"), while the former is widely praised as possibly the best material for medium-small general utility knives. Jury is "still out" as to its potential in bigger knives, however.

Glen

[This message has been edited by storyville (edited 20 December 1999).]
 
It may not be the most objective explanation of the use of titanium in knife blades, But Mission knives web site (www.missionknives.com) has quite a bit of info on their use of beta alloy titanium for knife blades, They dont use the 6AL6V for the above mentioned reasons, But they DO have the Navy contract if that says anything. There are also a number of other compaies using beta Ti in dive knives I dont know who actually makes them but they are being marketed through the major dive companies Dacor, Scubapro ect...
 
Lynn, based on what I have heard from its users I am very interested in a Talonite blade. (I am on the long list for a Cetan.) I have little interest in one made from Titanium.

It may just be the curiosity factor, but I know that if you have any success with Talonite you will be getting another order from me. As long as the cost is in line with what other makers are charging to use the material, I know what I'm paying for and don't mind the extra expense.

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James Segura
San Francisco, CA


 
Mr. Griffith,
Aside from the corrosion resistance and grinding difficulty exhibited by both, they are very different alloys.
1. Talonite is heavier than steel while titanium is of course much lighter.
2. Talonite will hold an incredible edge, reported even longer than cpm steels, while titanium will not hold and edge well at all compared to what people expect today.
3. Talonite's use so far as really only been proven in smaller blades as far as I know (I've been out of things for awhile though) and is not known to exhibit the strength provided by the steels used in large choppers while titanium is extremely strong and perhaps the strongest blade material available. Therfore, Talonite can not be ground to a real thin edge. I believe Mr. Simonich grinds it no thinner than .020 of an inch.
4. Don't quote me on this one and it be good to ask Mission knives on the titanium info. Talonite provides a very polished and slick edge when sharpened beyond a coarse stone that does not bite into rope real well while titanium is rather toothy I believe. However, Talonite will carve and slice flesh with the best of them.
5. I also don't believe Talonite is cleared for non magnetic work while Titanium is.
6. Talonite is largely unaffected by heat as it was made for carbide processors.

As far as which blade material to use, I would definitely go with talonite. As far as I am concerned, titanium has no use outside of a knife needed for diving or other such activities or perhaps for covert work. For the blades you make, Talonite is definitely the material to use. I don't think you should have any problems selling a blade out of the material, especially with the craftmanship you have exhibited so far.

thanks and take care
collin
 
As well, I would not use Talonite in a larger chopper style blade unless a customer specifically ordered it as so I don't know if Talonite is the right material for the job. Contrary, to what Arizona said, right now its role is in smaller fixed blades and folders at this time and not in large choppers I feel.

thanks and take care
collin
 
Collin,

Rob did have a rather large chopper made from Talonite tested by Steven Dick. It acquitted itself quite well. Not sure that it outpaces the really good tool steels in a blade this size unless corrosion control is a paramount concern.

As you probably know, I have the original Simonich Talonite Wambli, Simonich custom Talonite Crawford-REKAT Carnivore, and Trace Rinaldi's first Talonite effort, the Chimera. I have a presentation grade "super" Wambli on order. There is another Talonite blade I'm expecting and I've also been discussing a custom in Talonite from Drew Gleason aka Corduroy. Nothing I have, and I have just about every type of steel (except CPM 420V, 3V and 10V) in my battery, comes close for edge holding. The bit about rope is a bit deceiving... you can put a coarse edge on that will generate some bite, but it smooths out as if it sharpens itself. For rope you slice through it with a tad more downward pressure is all... no biggie, just a different feel.

That folder in Talonite is eminently practical due to the edge and being able to clean it up under tap water without any fear at all.

Neil,

I fully agree with your prediction that makers will have to offer Talonite as an option in the future simply because as the material, and its unique attributes, become more widely known, demand will be generated. There are some very interesting developments relative to key facets of this concept in the offing. Major announcements are due in a matter of weeks. Should r-e-a-l-l-y be interesting
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!!!


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-=[Bob Allman]=-
..Rapid City, SD..

I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!

BFC member since the very beginning
Member: American Knife & Tool Institute; Varmint Hunters Association;
National Rifle Association; Praire Thunder Inc.; Rapid City Rifle Club;
Spearfish Rifle & Pistol Club; Buck Collectors Club (prime interest: 532s)
Certified Talonite(r) enthusiast!


 
Thanks to everyone that posted. I have decided that Talonite is now a standard option for any knife that I make. Even though I have not built a knife from it, I am very confident on my ability to do so properly (thanks in great part to my conversations with Rob Simonich). My price scale for adding it will be based on Rob Simonichs and other knifemakers price scales. All input has helped. I took an order for a Talonite Texan yesterday, to go to Germany. Delivery time will be the same for talonite knives, as any of the rest of my standard options (3 months).

Thanks again for your help,

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Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

My website
GriffithKN@aol.com


 
Thanks Mr. Allman for stopping buy and clearing up things. I wasn't sure if I had got it all right or what so I was hoping someone with experience would stop by and check my work.
As far as the chopper tested my Steven Dick goes, I read that article and I thought it was valuable but not quite valuable enough. As we all know, Mr. Dick prefers smaller blades to chopper and doesn't quite advocate the super tough cut through anything blades so while I knew it would be a great review the blade wouldn't be taken to the extent of testing I would like--mainly Mr. Stamp's extent. I like to know my blades wil hod up through most of those tests beofre I buy one as a super chopper. Don't ask my why because I don't use my blades all that much actually, I just like to know I could punish them if I wanted to.

I didn't realize yoiur Talonite collection has grown so much either Mr. Allman. I am still waiting for my first piece, a Kanji which should arrive in January or so. I would actually have a Talonite Chimera by now but Mr. Simonich never sent the Talonite to Mr. Rhinaldi. By the time I realized this, Mr. Rinaldi's wait had grown I didn't feel like dealing with it though so I guess its my fault.

thanks and take care
collin
 
This is the second post with this mysterious allure to something intersting,in terms of talonite, coming down the pike.
Nothing like suspense
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Originally posted by Arizona:
This is the second post with this mysterious allure to something intersting,in terms of talonite, coming down the pike.
Nothing like suspense
Click to expand...
Yeah, no kidding. It's starting to get to me. I wish we at least had an idea of when to get the real news. Not that I'm whining or anything
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Lynn... you're starting to offer talonite, eh? Hey, whatever happened with those ... medium neck knives (?) ... that you were posting in a thread about 2 months ago. Still working on them? Or did they fall by the way-side? One of those in Talonite? Oh baby!
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"Absolute safety is for those who don't have the balls to live in the real world."
St. Mary's County, Republik of Marilundt
 
Originally posted by rockspyder:

Lynn... you're starting to offer talonite, eh? Hey, whatever happened with those ... medium neck knives (?) ... that you were posting in a thread about 2 months ago. Still working on them? Or did they fall by the way-side? One of those in Talonite? Oh baby!
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[/B]
Click to expand...

Rockspyder,
The 5.5" neck knife that I had discussed with forum members, is in the works. There will be a series of 4 knives in this size. I have already taken many orders for the drop point in this series. Yes, it will be available in Talonite. If you would like more info on this, please ask me about it on my Message Board at www.griffithknives.com/board



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Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

griffithknives.com
GriffithKN@aol.com
Available Knives
 
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Gee, you guys make it sound like I have a gun on you!
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Actually I am just replying here to test drive these new smileys!
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I am glad to see other makers willing to try out Talonite and offer it as an option. I am compiling a list of makers that are using it or willing to use it to refer customers to that dont want to wait 18 to 20 months for a Talonite knife from me. Anyone that wants on this list please e-mail me your name address and phone number, and e-mail address to give to perspective customers.
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Cool smilies huh!
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www.simonichknives.com
 
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