Tamahagane grades?

jdm61

jdm61

itinerant metal pounder
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Messages
47,357
I was looking at the Hitachi White #2 on the Dictum website and noticed that they had "raw" tamahagane for sale too. The stuff if 300-400 Euros per kilo before shipping, etc. which translates to about $150-200 a pound before you strip out the VAT that our EU brethren have to pay. They have two grades, #1 grade for 400 Euros a Kilo and #2 grade for 300. Anyone have any idea what the difference is?
 
The grade depends on how dense the steel is in the bloom, and how much carbon is in that chunk. It comes as a spongy mass of slag looking black stuff...with a few peeks of steel showing.

Be forewarned that it is a lot of work to reduce these spongy masses of tamahagane into a bar of steel and then to fold it ten or twenty times. The final result can be about half the starting lump's weight. That can bring the final billet up to $300-400 per pound.

If you are not willing, able, and experienced enough to do the work, it is far better to buy Dictum's finished Hitachi steels. This steel makes superb blades:
https://www.dictum.com/en/materials...eel-core-white-paper-steel?ffRefKey=uPBA2Eoly

Their suminagashi is also good:
https://www.dictum.com/en/materials...inagashi-flat-steel-forged?ffRefKey=uPBA2Eoly

By far my favorite for a classic Japanese blade is their white paper steel. 1.10% carbon and sang near nothing else. It is the only steel I ever recommend a water quench on:
https://www.dictum.com/en/materials...ite-paper-steel-from-japan?ffRefKey=uPBA2Eoly
 
Stacy, I would consider buying a chunk just to have it as a souvenir, but it is pricey so I would want to have something that I could eventually forge into a blade if I was so inclined. I was specifically looking at the white #2 which is cheaper than from the British supplier, but still about 50% more than what Aldo gets for his Blue #2 even after taking out the VAT and before shipping. The upside to Dictum is that you can actually get the White #2 and in the 4.5 mm size that you would want to have for something like a Yanagiba. The downside is obviously price and the fact that you can't get a piece any wider than 30mm which would make something like a honyaki deba a bit of a challenge.
Do you quench the White #2 in plain water or brine?
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
The grade depends on how dense the steel is in the bloom, and how much carbon is in that chunk. It comes as a spongy mass of slag looking black stuff...with a few peeks of steel showing.

Be forewarned that it is a lot of work to reduce these spongy masses of tamahagane into a bar of steel and then to fold it ten or twenty times. The final result can be about half the starting lump's weight. That can bring the final billet up to $300-400 per pound.

If you are not willing, able, and experienced enough to do the work, it is far better to buy Dictum's finished Hitachi steels. This steel makes superb blades:
https://www.dictum.com/en/materials...eel-core-white-paper-steel?ffRefKey=uPBA2Eoly

Their suminagashi is also good:
https://www.dictum.com/en/materials...inagashi-flat-steel-forged?ffRefKey=uPBA2Eoly

By far my favorite for a classic Japanese blade is their white paper steel. 1.10% carbon and sang near nothing else. It is the only steel I ever recommend a water quench on:
https://www.dictum.com/en/materials...ite-paper-steel-from-japan?ffRefKey=uPBA2Eoly
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
The specs on he Blue #2 remind me a lot of the old German 115W8 tool steel which I have played with a little bit, but with a bit less tungsten. The 115W8 it not quite as clean (.035 phosphorus and sulphur as opposed to the .020 of the Hitachi steels) and has carbon like the Blue #2 but tungsten like the high end of the Blue #1 range and slightly less chromium. I can't imagine where the reputation for brittleness on that blue steel comes from. They 115W8 is VERY tough and flexible by all accounts, even at like 62 for field knives and 63-64 for kitchen knives. I can only attest to the slightly "softer" heat treat.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
This may help:
White paper - (C 1.1 - 1.2 %, Si 0.1 - 0.2 %, P <0.02 5%, S <0.004 %)
http://zknives.com/knives/steels/st...2,Aogami Super,O7, W1, Shirogami 1&hrn=1&gm=0

As the comparison charts show,
Shirogami - white steel -- is similar to W-1...thus it is a water quench.....use brine.
Aogami - blue steel - is similar to O-7....thus an oil quench steel....use Parks #50.
Click to expand...
 
Guys, I came across this post searching for heat treat information on the Hitachi #2 Blue, does anyone know where I can find it?

Thanks,

Scott
 
hi there!
I'm fairly new here on the forums and had a few questions for my betters.
I just recently fired my first batch of crucible steel and I'm in the trouble shooting mode.
the button came out very porous and brittle, not solid. looks more like a piece of volcanic rock.
not sure if I messed up my temp and time to fire or got my iron to carbon ratio wrong and got cast iron.
my charge was magnetite and charcoal sealed with glass. I then fired it for about 3.5 hours with a 8 hour cool down, (i just let it cool off in the foundry)
i havent tried to forge it yet, but was wondering if anyone knew being so porous was this normal?
anyways, any help would be appreciated
thanks!
 
What type of crucible were you using?

Perhaps you didn't fire it long enough?

In a tartara melt, it comes out as a spongy volcanic rock looking material. I haven't done a crucible melt, but from what I have seen on videos, it comes out more solid looking. My friend is getting ready to do one this summer, so maybe I'll have some first hand experience in a few months.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top