Tanto Blades?

O

ol' dupe

Joined
Dec 30, 2003
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I'm relatively new to knife collecting and was wondering what everyone sees are the main advantages of Tanto-style blades. They don't make a lot of sense to me, but maybe I'm missing something?
 
To me, the look is appealing. I have a few of them. The only advantage i havefound is for scraping. Scrape with a flat edge rather than a point along the curve. Other than that, i just like my SNGs.
 
Assuming you are asking about the angular Americanized tanto and not the real Japanese blades, there are several reasons people buy them. One is that the point is stronger than most other points, which is usefull if you want to pry or stab steel drums or cars. ;) There is also a secondary edge which some people sharpen differntly than the main blade and use it almost as a second blade and the two edges come together to a secondary point. The secondary point is useful when cutting things like steak. I use my CS Recon Tanto in the kitchen all the time and I usually only cut with the secondary point.

For defensive use, the secondary point is good for snap cuts and the secondary edge is supposed to make a larger wound since it is supposed to cut everything in its path as it pierces rather than push tissue aside like other blades are said to. I really don't know if the stabbing part is true but I have tested the snap cutting on targets and it seems to work well.

IMO the main idea is point strength. People who buy them want a knife that they can take out and abuse and not worry about it breaking. Others probably buy them for the look.
 
You might actually be referring to chisel grinds, and if so, they don't work for me either. I've heard the old "punctures a car door" argument, but that's not a thing I do a lot.

Now, I've owned several, probably ten, Microtech tanto USSOCOMs. In my entire collecting hobby, they are probably the sharpest knives I've ever owned. Off of the Edge-Pro, these knives cut without you feeling it. I found that when I opened an envelope, I wound up cutting all of the documents inside.

Like anything, I think it boils down to personal choice.
 
hmmm.. yes, they have more flat towards the tip than most blades, but i really would like to see a samurai sword expert come in here & discourse on whether or not the tanto tip had a specific use with swords that isn't applicable with short blades. i doubt many folks use their knives as pry bars, i certainly wouldn't, unless the knife was a cheap throwaway which i had duplicates of.
 
Originally posted by The Tourist


Now, I've owned several, probably ten, Microtech tanto USSOCOMs. In my entire collecting hobby, they are probably the sharpest knives I've ever owned. .
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Ahh but thats not the tanto its just microtech's great blades... :D

I have a microtech its one of the 2 sharpest knives I own...its not a tanto
 
I could be wrong, but im pretty sure I have seen old, authentic Japanese swords and knives with a fairly angular tip area, not so different from the slightly more angled "american" tanto, popularized by Hartsfield and the like, so im not so sure that at least some the original Japanese knives didnt have that angled tip as well, yes, ive seen many old knives/swords that had almost no angles, just a sharp upsweep, but again, unless im very mistaken, ive seen old knives with the angled tip too.

I also recall hearing that the idea behind the chisel grind/tanto tip on Japanese knives was to make them a better utility knife, when i look at a well made thick, chisel ground blade, i see a few things, first, extreme tip strength, i dont attack car doors either, unless they start it, but nonetheless, i do like to know that a knife i carry has a reinforced tip, because fact is, lose your tip, you lose a lot of what a knife can be used for. And it is not so uncommon for a tip to break off even without abuse, you never know what life will throw at you, if i have a knife on me, id like it to be able to handle all the things i expect, and some i dont, and for this reason, i see a lot of merit in a well made, thick chisel ground Japanese type blade, like a Hartsfield strong boy for example, or the RJ Martin equivilent.

Im not concerned with the looks as much as the utility of a tanto/chisel ground blade, but i confess a love of well made, custom Japanese knives with thick chisel grinds and tanto tips. They strike me as a very capable, strong, heavy duty knife that can be counted on, as well as a tribute to the Japanese designs of old.
 
Originally posted by alan aragon
i really would like to see a samurai sword expert come in here & discourse on whether or not the tanto tip had a specific use with swords that isn't applicable with short blades.
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Do a search and you'll find at least one thread on that subject. ;) The sword forum is probably a better place to ask since a real tanto is technically a sword. www.bugei.com has some nice looking tantos and the Kris Cutlery www.kriscutlery.com one is good for the money.
 
I have been carrying tanto blades on and off for about 3 years now. I think that the greatest advantages lie in where the primary grind meets the secondary. This angled area of the blade makes for some very easy, smooth cutting especially when you need more pressure on the back of the knife blade itself. Of course the tip shouldn't be counted out either, but I don't need to punch through things very often. Tip strength also lies very heavily on the grind of the tanto. I find that chisel ground tantos (CQC-7, chisel ground Stryker) have a much more durable edge (albeit less capable of detailed work) than the typical V ground blade (Stryker, M16).
Matt
 
Hi Guys

A Tanto is just a knife or dagger with a blade of twelve inches or less!

The knife point that most people think of as a Tanto point is just a
KO (short) point it's one of three that were most commonly used on traditional Japaneses swords!

I'm not sure but i think it was probably used to punch through the the tough threaded and lacquered armor that the Samurai used! But i believe most of there fighting styles were circler or slicing as apposed to stabbing or thrusting!

As far as the chisel ground Tanto i have a few and i like em but i don't use them much, as far as i'm concerned most knife makers and
knife company's leave the blade to thick and the grinds to steep which makes the blade bite to deep when you slice with it!

Here's a great resource link on Japaneses Swords!
http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/nihonto.htm
 
Originally posted by Benjamin Liu
Assuming you are asking about the angular Americanized tanto and not the real Japanese blades, there are several reasons people buy them. One is that the point is stronger than most other points, which is usefull if you want to pry or stab steel drums or cars. ;)
...IMO the main idea is point strength. People who buy them want a knife that they can take out and abuse and not worry about it breaking.
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GRRrrrrrr....

I'm only chiming in to dispel this hype. Not trying to pick on Ben here, others have mentioned this too.

When it comes to prying or bending strength at the point, it is completely incorrect to say x blade shape is stronger than y. Bending strength is far more dependent on thickness at the tip. (something like 8 times more important, IIRC) For example, a hollow ground tanto blade tip could indeed be bent and broken far easier than a slender dagger with a reinforced center ridge that goes to the point.

There are also better designs for stabbing.
 
Looking at Japanese swords over time, they get straighter and more often have the "short point" as metal armor becomes more common. Got can? Get can opener. But I have some pretty late tantos without our "tanto" point.
 
The Americanized tanto typically has a thicker tip than other grinds, so the tip is stronger (TYPICALLY). The secondary point (the point where the front edge and the main edge intersect) is handy for utiliy functions,a nd by some reports (such as by Mich Strider), it makes one hell of a slasher. Also, a well designed tanto point makes a good "sticky tip" (run a search on that, it is for fightign applications). Cold Steel also says that a thrust with a tanto severs stuff in its way, as opposed to pushing it aside as dagger and other points can do.

As Joe Talmadge correctly points out, you can grind other point formats so that they have thicker tips, etc. It is just that typically, Americanized tanto blades are thicker at the tip, all things being equal. I find that a lot of the problems folks have with tanto blades is that they don't learn to use them properly. You can't use a tanto tip like it was a drop point for utility chores!

By the way, if you are askign about Japanese tanto, that is a whoel other ballgame. A tanto is not 12" or less in length, it is something liek 11.87" long or longer, under a certain limit, with full furniture. A Japanese tanto is just a small sword.
 
Well I probably shouldn't post since I see a topic like this pretty much every other week, but oh well.

Tanto is a short sword with a blade in the vicinity of 1 shaku (~11.9375 inches), with variations from roughly 5 inches to over 14 inches (always refers to nagasa or blade length). Easily 90% of all tanto are of a very basic convex zero-grind profile called hira zukuri.

Was there a Japanese sword/knife point that could have influenced the Americanized style? Yes.

Take a look at old Chokuto pieces, they tend to have very flat fukura (point "fullness" or "roundness"), and many tachi and other swords have very abbreviated points (ko-kissaki or ikubi-kissaki). The dimensions of the point are usually dictated by intended use or by stylistic preference.

Further, some knives used in sushi and food preparation have very angular points and kata-kiriha zukuri (why many folks assume Japanese swords are chisel-ground). Woodworking knives and chisels also tend to be very angled and geometric.

Is the tip shape we see on knives the same as we have on historical Japanese swords? While it sorta resembles the points on various longer old blades, not really. Especially not Japanese tanto.
 
A tanto is not 12" or less in length, it is something liek 11.87" long or longer, under a certain limit, with full furniture. A Japanese tanto is just a small sword.
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There are a lots of different resources out there on Japanese swords but most people agree that a Tanto was a knife or small sword of 11.8" inches or smaller, any sword longer then 11.8" inches and longer up to and including 23.6" inches was know as a Wakizashi usually a one handed shot sword. Or at least that's what i've read in the little bit of research i've done so far i'm by no means an expert!

Japanese sword and knives are some of my favorite kinds of blades and i love to learn about em, So y'all please post any info or links you might have on them!

Thanks
 
Length happens to one of the primary criteria for determining a blade style, though there are many exceptions out there.

In the past, we have often generated a basic length guide for this sort of thing:
0-1 shaku - tanto (includes aikuchi, hamidashi, et cetera)

1-2 shaku - shoto (includes wakizashi and many kodachi, et cetera)

2+ shaku - daito (includes katana, tachi, nodachi, et cetera)

When you start getting into those "boundaries" which are not very solid, naming becomes a bit more ambiguous. Some people add the O (large) or ko (small) prefixes (o-tanto, ko-wakizashi) to supplement their choice of nomenclature. While terms and names have their special place in the Japanese sword world, it may be good to keep in mind that those things aren't always critical.
 
Robert, I've been thinking of getting a traditional tanto for a while now. What do you think of the Samurai Tanto by Bugei? Are there any others who make traditional tantos that you would recommend? Doing a search pretty much ends up with only Americanized tantos.
 
I've not handled the Bugei Samurai tanto, but if it is anything like their full length swords of the same name, it should be pretty nice quality.

I can't say I've developed a whole lot of fondness for any production tanto though, and I'd probably recommend going custom. There are almost too many makers to mention, it really depends on your style. Having said that, I'm sure you can find really nice quality production tanto (Bugei would be a good source) that one could be content with.
 
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