Tantos, a serious discussion?

[d762nato]

I don't care for tanto blades anymore. I had my years after bending the tip of a cheap spear point that wasn't even properly heat treated(I didn't know much about steels and heat treatment). After that, I became really paranoid about tip integrity and I fell for the CS Americanized tanto propaganda. Most of the knives that I got during that time frame were tanto style. During those years I read on internet forums a lot of crap about the tanto blade design including how it was just for tacticool mall ninjas and how it made sharpening difficult, etc. I had no issues myself. I also don't see anything special about them. In fact, I've seen some videos of them failing just like spear or drop point so, what's the point?

Well the tip seems to work just fine on this one with no problems.

 

[Charlie Mike]

Those were 61RC (with cryo).

 

[Legendary_Jarl]

Well the tip seems to work just fine on this one with no problems.

Don't get me wrong, like I said Tanto styles worked fine for me. But, are there not other factors that affect the performance we see here? Thickness, steel type, heat treatment, etc.? I'm sure other blade types would perform well in this test too. What I'm trying to say is that for the most common knives we carry(i.e. relatively small and thin folders) this kind of tip doesn't make much of a difference.

 

[Lapedog]

Honestly I do agree that the pronounced yokote (secondary tip) helps a huge degree in defensive snap cuts.

 

[chambelona59]

I Had it re-profiled, got rid of the tanto on it.

Two photos of the original tanto profile/tip:

 

[Charlie Mike]

Gorgeous! Wish they made a premium version of the 0630 but it looks like you got one!

 

[Practicoolio]

Honestly I do agree that the pronounced yokote (secondary tip) helps a huge degree in defensive snap cuts.

Could you define a snap cut for a noob?
I've googled and only found a thing an arborist does with a chainsaw - which I've done to drywall with a pocketknife but that's probably entirely different?

 

[Dfunk1210]

Could you define a snap cut for a noob?
I've googled and only found a thing an arborist does with a chainsaw - which I've done to drywall with a pocketknife but that's probably entirely different?

This is a pretty old thread. But to answer your question, go look up any cold steel tanto video on youtube. It is that jabbing cut using where the two edges meet that Lynn Thompson loves to do on pork.

 

[Lapedog]

Could you define a snap cut for a noob?
I've googled and only found a thing an arborist does with a chainsaw - which I've done to drywall with a pocketknife but that's probably entirely different?

Sure thing. Typically when cutting one would want to perform a draw cut where one draws the edge along the target upon contacting it. As you noted curved swords seem to excel at this.

A snap cut is where one hits the target without drawing the blade as one would with a bat or club. (Although one could actually follow up a snap cut by drawing the blade across the target.) The advantage being it is faster and more intuitive to just hit someone with the edge than to perform a draw cut.

A properly performed draw cut will likely do more damage overall but is not as fast to perform.

Because the American tanto has the secondary point (yokote) it better concentrates the force in a snap cut on that secondary tip.

I was trying to find a video I saw where one compares hitting a target covered in leather with a snap cut with a Japanese style traditional yokote (no secondary tip) vs an American tanto tip (with secondary tip) and the results are telling.

The traditional yokote did not penetrate the leather at all whereas the american tanto yokote punched right through the leather and hit the target underneath.

 

[Practicoolio]

Sure thing. Typically when cutting one would want to perform a draw cut where one draws the edge along the target upon contacting it. As you noted curved swords seem to excel at this.

A snap cut is where one hits the target without drawing the blade as one would with a bat or club.

I was trying to find a video I saw where one compares hitting a target covered in leather with a snap cut with a Japanese style traditional yokote (no secondary tip) vs an American tanto tip

Thanks that sounds a lot like a direct application of sinawali techniques I've practiced. An instructor mentioned that it's a stick, not a boken, and this affected the technique. It had occurred to me that a tomahawk or some lightweight mace type weapons could work with the bouncing motion, I had never thought about a yokote as the impact point for the bounce.

 

[PMCsoldier]

I have a TOPS Sky Marshal and maybe two other tonotos. Being honest they aren’t my preferred style but I will say any knife that by design will punch through a car door has a place in my safes. This is not a I heard a guy did this statement, I have actually tested the TOPS knife and it was extremely easy.

 

[POCEH KOCEB]

Because the American tanto has the secondary point (yokote) it better concentrates the force in a snap cut on that secondary tip.

Absolutely correct, the only problem is a folder can't have the mass and momentum of a larger, fixed blade, but this secondary point also works miracles on slash.
In regard of the idea that tantos are good for punching trough some barrier material, here is a picture that saves about a thousand words - the one designed for stabbing, obviously penetrated better ( and with less force).
All of them different, but all - amazing knives.

This was done just for fun, in a no good, flat tire, my observation was that the thinner the blade is, the better the penetration is, in addition to the sharper angle at the tip.

 

[DocJD]

Absolutely correct, the only problem is a folder can't have the mass and momentum of a larger, fixed blade, but this secondary point also works miracles on slash.
In regard of the idea that tantos are good for punching trough some barrier material, here is a picture that saves about a thousand words - the one designed for stabbing, obviously penetrated better ( and with less force).
All of them different, but all - amazing knives.

This was done just for fun, in a no good, flat tire, my observation was that the thinner the blade is, the better the penetration is, in addition to the sharper angle at the tip.

This is like a tire vandal's consumer reports ^^^ !

 

[Lapedog]

Absolutely correct, the only problem is a folder can't have the mass and momentum of a larger, fixed blade, but this secondary point also works miracles on slash.
In regard of the idea that tantos are good for punching trough some barrier material, here is a picture that saves about a thousand words - the one designed for stabbing, obviously penetrated better ( and with less force).
All of them different, but all - amazing knives.

This was done just for fun, in a no good, flat tire, my observation was that the thinner the blade is, the better the penetration is, in addition to the sharper angle at the tip.

Honestly, discussing the slashing properties of a small folding knife is like debating small caliber wounding potential.

Yes it can kill you.

 

[tony281sc2]

One of my grail knives is a Hinderer Eklipse Tanto. My shield will have to do for now, but that is a great knife especially for the money. I really wish ZT would do a version of the Hinderer eklipse Tanto like Kershaw did.

 

[Lapedog]

One of my grail knives is a Hinderer Eklipse Tanto. My shield will have to do for now, but that is a great knife especially for the money. I really wish ZT would do a version of the Hinderer eklipse Tanto like Kershaw did.

ZT has done several models of the Hinderer Eklipse Tanto. Infact I had owned one.

The ZT 392 and 393 are based off the Hinderer Eklipse and both come in Tanto versions. The 392 comes with other blade types too.

I owned an Eklipse and 392 at the same time and of the Hinderer ZTs it was the closest to the Hinderer it was modelled on of any ZT.

 

[WillB]

Absolutely correct, the only problem is a folder can't have the mass and momentum of a larger, fixed blade, but this secondary point also works miracles on slash.
In regard of the idea that tantos are good for punching trough some barrier material, here is a picture that saves about a thousand words - the one designed for stabbing, obviously penetrated better ( and with less force).
All of them different, but all - amazing knives.

That pic makes me think immediately what will happen if you don't pull the knife back straight vs say at an angle, either on purpose or under stress, etc. The tanto's more likely to still have a tip. Personally, I don't see them as superior perpetrators per se, but more likely to tolerate punching trough some barrier material, not losing their tip, and if they do, having more blade remaining as a functioning blade. Personally, I will take the trade off in favor of the tanto for those reasons. As always, intended use dictates choices. I see knives as more a utility tool for known and un expected uses, a self defense option secondary. I do suspect a tough utility oriented knife will serve as a weapon if required better than a pure fighter/stabber will function as a hard use utility blade.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I don't EDC my cold steel Tantos as much as I used to (folders or fixed) I do have a few.

I can say, I have tested snap cuts against a few different targets, and the knives with a defined secondary point (yakote) perform this cut with much better results.

I also have an affinity for Hartsfield style Kwaiken with cord wrapped/epoxied handles and aluminum core, lined, leather wrap sheaths.

 

[tony281sc2]

ZT has done several models of the Hinderer Eklipse Tanto. Infact I had owned one.

The ZT 392 and 393 are based off the Hinderer Eklipse and both come in Tanto versions. The 392 comes with other blade types too.

I owned an Eklipse and 392 at the same time and of the Hinderer ZTs it was the closest to the Hinderer it was modelled on of any ZT.

I like the 0393s but not enough angle on the Tanto for me. The 0400 is cool but harder to find now

 

[POCEH KOCEB]

Honestly, discussing the slashing properties of a small folding knife is like debating small caliber wounding potential.

Yes it can kill you.

I only mention it because for me seems to be more probable scenario with a folding knife instead of snap cut with fixed tanto blade. Slash with 3.5 - 4" blade could be devastating even from a hand of a non-trained person. Not a fan of small or large calibers, I'm a fan of shot placement, but love folding knives because of their convenience, you carry those better than fixed blades ( that I also have plenty ). I can only speak for myself and I find them more useful. I also had to draw a knife for self defense few times, all of them were waved folders, I'm kind of convinced in their qualities, regardless what the popular opinion about folders is.