Tantung, a new look?

Marion David Poff

Marion David Poff

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
5,403
Good Day,

I was contacted by a representative of Fansteel/VRWesson. He is interested in introducing Tantung, with it's improved
performance to knifemakers. Following are quotes from his emails.....

"I have been working with a material called Tantung for the past year and have improved upon it greatly. It is a cast cobalt
alloy that has primarily been used for cutting tools and woodworking, but our improved production techniques have made it
suitable (I think) for knifemakers. In some ways it is a similar material to Talonite and Stellite except that it is a casting and contains more carbon, making it harder (~Rc 60). For cutting tools it is valuable in that it can cut very hot and not anneal, keep a sharp edge and is very wear and corrosion resistant. Our new processing improves the toughness and so it could be a good potential knife blade."

"I checked some standard blanks, say 1-1/8x3/16x6 and it's around $40-$50 depending upon quantity. There are some stock
items and delivery is usually a couple of weeks if not in stock. Custom blanks and even shapes are possible as well."

http://www.fansteelvrwesson.com/products/tantung.htm

Any makers interested, any makers you can think of that I should contact?

Any thoughts?

------------------
Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye mdpoff@hotmail.com

My website, guided links, talonite/cobalt alloy info, etc....
http://www.geocities.com/mdpoff

>>--->Bill Siegle Custom Knives<---<<
-http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives-

"To wait for luck is the same as waiting for death." -Japanese Proverb

"Place you clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark." -Lazarus Long

"We cut things to create things" - James K Mattis
 
:
I used Tantung-G and Tantung-144, I believe it was, many years ago for box tool blades for screw machines and turret lathes.
It is an exceptional cutting tool when used end on as for box tool blades.
Many times I could easily see voids in the center of the cast material and that's one of the reasons it wasn't good for form tools that had to be sharpened from the side.
The material is softer, a bit, in the center.
If the material was cast into a desirable blade shape it might be alright.
Perhaps the improvements you speak of have eliminated the voids and softer core problems?




------------------

>>>>---Yvsa-G@WebTV.net---->®

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.
 
Yvsa,

Perhaps, I have no experience with the material, I am simply acting to introduce this stuff to the people who can give an informed opinion about it.

Any makers you might suggest I contact?

MDP
 
I had to look up "Columbium", from their literature, also known as Niobium.

DaveH
 
I know that Kit Carson uses Stellite, and Darrel Ralph uses Talonite to make some of their knives.
What may be required is that samples of the material are given at no cost so that it can be tested as to whether it will work as a blade material.
I am not sure, but if you are able to do this, maybe one of these makers will be willing to give it a try.
Keith.
 
:
Marion when I was using Tantung it was, Is a good cutting tool. And you could grind it hell bent for leather and get it plenty hot without hurting it or removing hardness, You just Didn't want to Dunk it in Water to cool or it would sometimes chip.

The company way back then made special order blanks for tools such as "Dovetail Tools" which were pretty much to shape and needed little form grinding to finish them to the proper tolerances, which in my trade could be within 0.0001 inch.
Because these tools were ground from the end instead of the side the softer center and the voids sometimes found there weren't an issue.
A knife blade could have been cast to shape, thickness, etc back then and would have been awesome, But the fact that it did get a bit softer in the center as well as having voids there as well I don't think it was practical. The Tantung-G was a good shock resistant grade, but the other one wasn't designed for shock applications.

If the company has addressed the softer center and the voids, sometimes found there as well, and the toughness issue it might be worth a try.
I can't recall for sure, but it seems that the material was nonmagnetic too.
And IIRC that was why some tool grinders didn't like it because they couldn't use a magnetic chuck to grind it on.


------------------

>>>>---Yvsa-G@WebTV.net---->®

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.
 
From Larry Kramer(lkramer@erols.com ), the representative of VR Wesson/Fansteel that prompted my posts about Tantung.

"I have trouble accessing your links sometimes, but I recall someone on the forum stating they had received some bars and were performing tests. I am almost sure that they must have the older product and their results will not be representative of the new stuff. Since I can't seem to get back to that forum, perhaps you could step in.

- Steve Harvey, has an interesting point about carbon level. The fact is that during the processing of this alloy, very few carbides actually form and those that do are extremely fine. Surprisingly, most of the carbon and transition metals in the alloy (Mn, Fe, Nb, Cr, W) are in solution in the cobalt matrix, and so squeezing more of them in does make a difference."

He is referring to a thread at Tactical Forums….

http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum8/HTML/000155.html

Considering the samples, he has contacted some who have posted and replied by email, after that he is awaiting more samples. His email is lkramer@erols.com.

------------------
Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye mdpoff@hotmail.com

My website, guided links, talonite/cobalt alloy info, etc....
http://www.geocities.com/mdpoff

>>--->Bill Siegle Custom Knives<---<<
-http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives-

"To wait for luck is the same as waiting for death." -Japanese Proverb

"Place you clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark." -Lazarus Long

"We cut things to create things" - James K Mattis
 
The above thread on Tactical forums contains a post by McClung worth reading. On direct experience with several Cobalt alloys (Stellite 6K, Talonite, forged Talonite, Boye's cast Cobalt), I have found them all lacking in durability and as McClung notes, a human using a knife is a far different matter than a machine using one with a well controlled vector. If the Tantung material properties (strength and toughness) are well above Talonite it might be interesting though.

Of course the ironic things about McClung's post is that he makes knives out of a ceramic composite, which isn't even as durable as the Cobalt alloys.

-Cliff
 
Cliff- Have you tested one of Mad Dog`s ceramic knives? I understand that they are made from a proprietary recipe and are baked. I understand them to extremely tough and durable, not like the Japanese ceramic used in knives these days. I`d be interrested in seeing your data on the MD ceramic.
 
Steve B:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Have you tested one of Mad Dog`s ceramic knives?</font>
Click to expand...

I used one of them for quite some time. The cutting performance was very poor due to the NIB sharpness (low), thick edge and poor handle ergonomics. After I sharpened it, it would cut decently well but far less than a steel blade.

I intended to do some more work with it to quantify just how low the durability was and thus how much I could thin the edge out, but I could not get a straight answer concerning the durability except hype (this is what I can do - you however cannot try it yourself) and thus lost all desire to work with the knife. I gave it to NamViet Vo awhile ago.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I understand that they are made from a proprietary recipe</font>
Click to expand...

As it seems is almost everything McClung uses. Ceramic composites are nothing new, and while they are a lot tougher than ceramics they are a lot more fragile than steel. In one of the threads on McClungs older forum he commented that the blades are roughly similar in toughness to a file of similar thickness - which is very low.

-Cliff
 
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