Taper

R

rupsty

Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Messages
42
Hi,

I'm new here and just started making my first knife. It's a chef's knife that I'm copying the profile of a 10" Kramer knife that I own. It's pretty big but what the heck. Gotta shoot for the stars.

Anyhow, I noticed something that I hadn't until tonight. When looking down at the blade, say while I'm cutting a tomato, I can see that there is a taper that starts subtly at the handle (it's a full tang) and gets progressively thinner at the tip (pointy end). This is in addition to the taper down to the cutting edge.

In order to get this beautiful taper from rear to tip, is it also just a matter of being very good with the grinder? Or is there a method to getting it?

Thank you!
Rusty
 
Distal taper is the term you're looking for. I'm still just an ameture, but I would not attempt a 10" chef knife were I a beginner let alone attempt to distal taper it. I've done probably a dozen chef/kitchen knives and still can't quite get it right (getting closer with each attempt). Chef knives are alot of work to make a good one. I'd recommend that you try some smaller projects and master the flat grind before such an ambitious project. Or do alot of post heat treat grinding dipping in a water bucket frequently.

Post the specs on your steel and the experts could probably help you better.
 
Distal taper is not terribly hard to do. Just takes more time. If doing stock removal, you can scribe a center line on the spine, or a double set. This gives a reference to go by. You grind or file a 45° tapered angle from near the grip to nearing the point trying to stay even side to side. Once it looks right, you grind away the high area between your angle and the edge. You might want to try it on a small blade first.
 
Forging in distal taper is even easier than grinding. You just hammer progressivly more as you move toward the tip. On chef knives, if you are already starting on thin stock it is easy to put in too much distal taper and then the knife flexes too much. In my opinion, it is best to be subtle for the first 2/3 of the blade and then increase more to the tip.
 
Thanks guys. Good info. I'm using 01 steel.

And yes, in retrospect I should have started with a smaller knife. But here I am, with a big honking' knife profile. Which I'm actually kinda proud of. There's so much info on the web it's hard to bounce from one opinion to another and glean all the information properly. So that's where trial and error comes in. For me it's usually a lot of errors. But it's a learning experience and I enjoy it.

I realize the question I'm about to ask has many different answers but I'll ask it anyway: How long do most of you spend on a constructing a kitchen knife?

Thanks,
Rusty
 
I can't help you, but do you mind taking a picture of your project? Also, what grinder are you using?
 
As a hobbyist I've spent anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months. Doing a backyard heat treat, I found that it's difficult to avoid warp in a long thin blade. So the last one I made I did most of the grinding post heat treat, a little at a time. Took me 3 months to finally get it finished and polished. Every time I finish one I swear I'm never making another, but I just can't resist and I'm thinking about doing another in one of the super steels and sending it off for heat treat.
 
i'm guessing the time you spend is sometimes related to the time you have. 3 months sounds like a long time but if you don't have a lot of free time then i can image that a knife could take this long.

i'll try and post some pics of my wip!
 
i'm using the craftsman 2x42 at the moment. i know it's not the best but for now it will have to do. i also have a portaband with the swag table setup.
 
"Shoot for the stars", my behind. Reel it in. KISS.

It's absolute folly to start with a 10" chef's blade (or any 10" blade) as your first project. It's nearly as short-sighted to attempt a proper distal-taper on any blade, regardless of size, the first time out of the gate.

The geometry involved is much more complicated than it seems.

If you want to be a knifemaker, start from the edge and work up. Make a small knife that really cuts well before you tackle a huge project.
 
Too late!!

I had already cut the steel profile by my first post. So I'm in it until the end.

So far I'm pretty happy with the results. Not perfect, not great, but slowly making a knife. It's coming together ok and I'm really enjoying it. My next knife will be a smaller one however.

Thanks,
Rusty




james terrio said:
"Shoot for the stars", my behind. Reel it in. KISS.

It's absolute folly to start with a 10" chef's blade (or any 10" blade) as your first project. It's nearly as short-sighted to attempt a proper distal-taper on any blade, regardless of size, the first time out of the gate.

The geometry involved is much more complicated than it seems.

If you want to be a knifemaker, start from the edge and work up. Make a small knife that really cuts well before you tackle a huge project.
Click to expand...
 
I have nothing to say about the size of you project. However, did you upgrade the platen? It really helps if you haven't.
 
My first projects were large kitchen knives like the one you're looking to make right now.

The distal taper is one of the big issues I deal with. You can certainly grind it, but it takes some patience. Be sure to switch sides often, because I've found that you can induce warps if grinding on one side for too long. You can also use a large wheel to hog out a lot of the material, but be careful with this method because you might just take off too much in one spot or get a warp.

If you have the skills and tools, forging can be a quick way to do it. I forge mine in sometimes, but since I'm not that good it takes a bunch of tweaking and patience again. I know some people surface grind them efficiently and effectively, and I wish one day that I will be able to do that also.

I will just say, you have a fantastic opportunity to make a killer knife, because you've got one of the best examples to learn off of!
 
I plan to send it off for heat treating. I don't have any equipment for that.

One thing maybe someone can help me with: how far do I go in creating the taper (not distal) before I heat treat? Should I stop just before creating a real sharp edge or just continue to refine it until I get what I think is a sharp knife? Simply, how far do I go before I heat treat?

Btw - I have to say I'm kinda impressed with my knife so far. It's not perfect by any stretch. I can see the flaws myself. But it's far better than I expected.

Thanks,
Rusty
 
I'm at a decision making stage. I feel the knife is still overall too thick as compared to the Kramer. Do I attempt to skinny it up like the Kramer or quit while I'm ahead. I realize there are some things I still need to work on with the handle. I'd like to get inside the handle better but I don't yet have the tools. I'm going to try and use my drill with a grinder bit on it to refine the inner part of the handle. Also here's a question: Can I use a cordless hand drill to drill the holes? Or do I need a drill press. Any recommendations?
 
I don't usually have to force a distal taper when grinding, it just kind of comes in on it's own.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top