Tapping titanium-what am I doing wrong?

Don Hanson III said:
One or two sizes larger drill works great for ti. I stopped breaking taps when I started using a elec drill/driver to run the taps. Zip em in, zip em out, fast and no breaking. I use mostly 0-80 and we all know how easy they break
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I agree with Don. I use a cordless drill to tap 2-56 in titainium. I no longer break taps, I wear them out. Roger Hatt showed me this about a year ago and been using it ever since.
 
#50 drill bit is the correct size for 2-56.

If I were to guess, are you using a "carbon steel" tap? Those things are complete garbage, in my experience.

Try using a HSS tap, and it should have no problems going through titanium (Viking/Norsemen are very good.).

To get the broken tap out, just shatter it with a center punch and a hammer.
 
(For people who might not notice otherwise- 4 year old (great!!) thread resurrected!

Awesome info though, I'm just starting to make knives again, and don't plan on stopping this time!!
 
Yea trying to drill a tap out sucks. The tap is probably as hard or harder then the bit ! ( doesn't work well )

Also I'm pretty sure the reason it helps to drill with the larger then recommended bit is because of human error. (Hear me out)

When you slightly tip your tap out of perfect line with the bore when you try to cut the thread it goes in at an angle then binds the tap and viola snap!
Unless you know the tricks to keep yer tap straight (trade secrets lol)
So....... like has been said a drill works better because it takes "some" of the error of a hand tap out .

But just so you know the correct size hole is for a reason.

You lose torque capacity when you oversize the hole (not that it matters too much but right is right )

Just my 2
 
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Boatbuilder said:
I agree with Don. I use a cordless drill to tap 2-56 in titainium. I no longer break taps, I wear them out. Roger Hatt showed me this about a year ago and been using it ever since.
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I'm in the same boat as the rest of you guys ... after reading a few different forum posts I think I'm on the right track.

I'm trying to put a few 2-56 holes in a 1/8" (0.125") piece of 6Al-4V titanium.

And, naturally, 5 forum posts will give you 5 different answers. I have a #48 drill bit on order and now I just ordered a #47.

And the $100 price tag for Moly-Dee is definitely a jaw-dropper but apparently it's night and day different than the Tap Magic I'm using now.

My main question, especially to Boatbuilder and Don who use drills for their 2-56 tapping ... do you know / remember exactly which taps you used? I've broken about 6 taps so far tapping by hand and it's probably because I have the wrong taps (and was using the wrong drill size). At $20-$50 for the taps that are recommended on the other forums, I'm hoping you can tell me the exact tap to buy. Also, how do you secure the pieces you're tapping? I would really like to minimize any trial and errors on my part.

Thank you guys!
 
875fps said:
My main question, especially to Boatbuilder and Don who use drills for their 2-56 tapping ... do you know / remember exactly which taps you used? I've broken about 6 taps so far tapping by hand and it's probably because I have the wrong taps (and was using the wrong drill size). At $20-$50 for the taps that are recommended on the other forums, I'm hoping you can tell me the exact tap to buy. Also, how do you secure the pieces you're tapping? I would really like to minimize any trial and errors on my part.
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Spiral ground high speed steel taps from Kit Supply is what I use.

I hold the liner in left hand and drill in right and am done in 1 or 2 seconds. I use 0-80 & 1-72 taps & rarely break one. When they start acting dull I toss em. These cost like $2 each I think, it's been a while since ordering any cause I'll get 2-3 dozen at a time.
 
2 things to note yes if you flex them you will snap taps. 2 tapping charts are not speced for Ti parts ajustments have to be made
 
tiguy7 said:
This is what a small hand tapper looks like. It solves the off axis thrust problem. I remove the blade when tapping, so I am tapping a through hole. The pictured tap is #2X56TPI.View attachment 704328
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Don Hanson III said:
Spiral ground high speed steel taps from Kit Supply is what I use.

I hold the liner in left hand and drill in right and am done in 1 or 2 seconds. I use 0-80 & 1-72 taps & rarely break one. When they start acting dull I toss em. These cost like $2 each I think, it's been a while since ordering any cause I'll get 2-3 dozen at a time.
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Thank you guys. It sounds like I don't need the fancy expensive taps but I've broken so many $8 taps that I'm leary of the cheap ones.

Do you guys use any cutting fluid like Moly-Dee? Literally everything I've read says to stay away from Tap Magic when tapping titanium and strictly stay with the Molly-Dee.

TiGuy7, have you broken many taps with that hand tapper?

From my research, I've learned that Brian Fellhoulter (surely you guys know of him) uses (or at least used to use) one of the TapMatic drill press add-ons. They look incredibly useful and knowing that Brian used one adds a lot of credibility to them. I've seen a lot of people say to stay away from them, though. Admittedly, I haven't done a lot of research into them yet.

Don, when you use your drill are you going full speed or do you throttle your speed at all? I saw one that guy that built his own hand tapping machine like TiGuy7 uses and he made a 1/4" shank for it so he can use his drill.

Thanks for your help guys.
 
875fps said:
From my research, I've learned that Brian Fellhoulter (surely you guys know of him) uses (or at least used to use) one of the TapMatic drill press add-ons. They look incredibly useful and knowing that Brian used one adds a lot of credibility to them. I've seen a lot of people say to stay away from them, though. Admittedly, I haven't done a lot of research into them yet.
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Based on my experience, Brian's advice is 100% spot on. My 2-56 Ti threads are all done with thread-forming taps driven by a TapMatic into a 5/64" hole with Moly-Dee. I don't do nearly as much tapping as some... but can say that I have never broken a tap using this set-up.
Erin
 
875fps said:
Thank you guys. It sounds like I don't need the fancy expensive taps but I've broken so many $8 taps that I'm leary of the cheap ones.

Do you guys use any cutting fluid like Moly-Dee? Literally everything I've read says to stay away from Tap Magic when tapping titanium and strictly stay with the Molly-Dee.

TiGuy7, have you broken many taps with that hand tapper?

From my research, I've learned that Brian Fellhoulter (surely you guys know of him) uses (or at least used to use) one of the TapMatic drill press add-ons. They look incredibly useful and knowing that Brian used one adds a lot of credibility to them. I've seen a lot of people say to stay away from them, though. Admittedly, I haven't done a lot of research into them yet.

Don, when you use your drill are you going full speed or do you throttle your speed at all? I saw one that guy that built his own hand tapping machine like TiGuy7 uses and he made a 1/4" shank for it so he can use his drill.

Thanks for your help guys.
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I have broken a few taps, but they aren't that expensive and they are easy to remove with acid. I think the taps that I am breaking are either old or cheap. The Tapmatic stuff works well, but it is geared towards high volume production. I am a low volume mangler (my collector friends call me the mangler because I modify production knives). The holes in which I break taps are quite deep having a depth equal to 3 or 4 times the diameter of the tap. Even though it is quite messy, I like to use Sulfurated oil as a tap lubricant. Use a smaller drill for shallow holes and larger drill for deeper holes. Machinery's Handbook has the charts to determine tap drill size as it relates to the class of fit.
 
875fps said:
From my research, I've learned that Brian Fellhoulter (surely you guys know of him) uses (or at least used to use) one of the TapMatic drill press add-ons. They look incredibly useful and knowing that Brian used one adds a lot of credibility to them. I've seen a lot of people say to stay away from them, though.
.
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The only downside to a tapmatic is the price

I have an import one and it's fine.
http://www.sowatool.com/Product/8/311/1472

When setting your clutch, start low and go higher, not the other way around.

I first saw and bought one from it's use in the Terzuola book.

You will wear out dull a tap before you break it.
 
I've been doing a lot of research tonight and have most of my questions answered. I had no idea that the TapMatics were so expensive, although there are some hand tapping machines that are also a couple hundred which puts them right around the cheaper 30x TapMatic.

It looks like everyone is stocking the same little mini tapping machine and man that thing looks ugly and looks like it's made from some very cheap materials. I don't really feel comfortable spending $100 on something like that when I can just build my own. Most of the really nice DIY ones were made by machinists but there are a couple of simple ones around that I'm pretty sure I can do.

I also found a smaller bottle of Moly-Dee on Amazon for about $30 which is a lot better than $100!

I'm still stuck on which specific taps to buy.

These are the taps I keep breaking (6 so far!):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N3ZJNIE

So far I know that I at least need one that's uncoated, has a spiral tip, does thread forming (as opposed to cutting), and has a high hook with a radial relief.

This post has a great diagram about it: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/tapping-titanium-201005/

There are so many options when picking out a tap and most of what I'm finding online are very very general recommendations. It can get pretty confusing and when taps run $20-$60, picking the right one is crucial.
 
I've tapped literally Thousands of holes as a machinist and my preference are "OSG" Taps. When properly supported (read hand tapper as pictured above) they will wear out before breaking. I have a Tapmatic for production runs and I have a hand tapper I purchased from "Little Machine Shop" years ago when they were $52.00....I can't build one for what they are selling for these days $69.00. Proper lube good support and extra clearance will produce adequate threading for small screws.
 
875fps said:
Don, when you use your drill are you going full speed or do you throttle your speed at all? I saw one that guy that built his own hand tapping machine like TiGuy7 uses and he made a 1/4" shank for it so he can use his drill.
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I run the drill pretty fast, but not much over 1/2 speed. I also use a wax type lube made for burrs. I think it called Burr life? That said, the thickest ti I tap is .070". All free hand with a cordless drill. Hundreds of holes per year. Maybe break one tap per year or less. Have you ever looked at a 0-80 size tape? I used to break em all the time doing it by hand.
 
tiguy7 said:
This is what a small hand tapper looks like. It solves the off axis thrust problem. I remove the blade when tapping, so I am tapping a through hole. The pictured tap is #2X56TPI.View attachment 704328
Click to expand...

I make my own hand tapper for small thread ................. ;)

293g1t0.jpg
 
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