Tarps

Coldwood

Coldwood

Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
2,718
We've talked a lot here about stringing tarps up as a shelter. I've had a lot of good experience just pulling a tarp over my sleeping bag and head to keep warm, whether it was a blue plastic tarp or cotton canvas painter's tarp treated with Thompson's Water Seal.

So: High shelter or low shelter? Whaddya think?
 
I'll vote for suspending it low. Provides maximum protection to you and your gear. Gives very low profile to the wind and prying eyes. If wrapping up in a tarp I would be very leery of condensation and of being able to exit quickly enough. Now if I had to choose between using the tarp as a ground cloth or as a shelter, I would probably choose ground cloth and build a shelter.
 
I've found that wrapping myself and sleeping bag up in one works pretty well. The condensation could be a problem. A buddy of mine and I did this once, two sleeping bags, a tarp over the top of us. We we're toasty till dawn. Dawn sucked, it was less than 30 degrees. Anyway, my point is, a tarp over a sleeping bag, for whatever it's rated for, will give you much more protection.

As an edit, I will say that your ability to exit a sleeping bag is chancy. Think about it.
 
If it were survival situation, throw dry leaves over your sleeping bag, then drape and stake a tarp over the bag. The extra insulation from the leaves and trapped air will help.

Also, you can then pile leaves on top of the tarp, for even more insulation.

If there are no dry leaves, then I'd hang the tarp fairly low, like a debris hut, and pile stuff over it.

The outside of the tarp would have to be pretty cold to condense the moisture. Need a ground cover if it's ground moisture causing it.
Or, lay tarp down, place bag on one half, and fold over, like half a sammich.
This way you get a ground cloth and outer shell.

I always pile leaves under a ground cloth, or tent floor. Anything to form an insulating layer between me and the cold hard ground.

The insulating power of leaves should not be ignored.
 
I like to rig my tarp a bit higher. If it is going to rain or sleet or snow, a shelter is much more comfortable when I can at least sit up and burn a candle, or even light a small stove to cook.

I've never done winter camping in Canada, Alaska, or the Rockies, but I have gone two weeks with the temperature never above freezing during the day, and teens to ten below zero at night. My breath added enough moisture to the air to create a thick frost on the underside of my tarp. By morning, it was actually thicker inside than outside. I'm afraid that my bag would have absorbed some of that moisture if the tarp had been lower. As it was, I slept toasty warm. I don't have any hi-tech equipment, though I wish sometimes I did. My sleeping bag is a military surplus arctic bag with a wolf fur ruff around the face opening. Slipping an antique down "Stagbag" inside it, and wearing a good wool toboggan, I can move around in my sleep without rolling the outer bag and getting cold spots. Oh yeah, I use a thin foam pad beneath, also milsurp.

Bestest heavy duty never-fail tarp? Stand up to a day's torrential downpour without a drip? A section of deuce-and-a-quarter truck cover. Heavy rubberized canvas that can be patched and repaired with rubber cement. I use pieces of it in my construction work when I am breaking out concrete. The broken concrete and dirt are piled on the tarp section next to my excavation. These 6'x6' sections are still good after five years of this abuse.

Codger
 
Codger_64 said:
I like to rig my tarp a bit higher. If it is going to rain or sleet or snow, a shelter is much more comfortable when I can at least sit up and burn a candle, or even light a small stove to cook.
Click to expand...

I'm with you there. Of course the beauty is, versatility. A tarp is easily adjusted to the materials/needs at hand.

My fondness for tarps has led me to look into hammocks, as well. I got some good info from the guys on this thread: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439049&highlight=hammock

I think this Jungle Hammock w/Fly is the bee's knees:

http://www.mosquitohammock.com/

I like the green GI foam pads, too. I'm thinking of cutting mine down to about hip length to save a bit of bulk.
 
Say it's an 8x8 tarp, fold half under for a ground cloth and vapor barrier, get in the bag on top of that and then fold the other half over, covering your head and feet.

I've done that under a light snowfall. Don't know how a foot or two feet of snow would be.
 
GibsonFan said:
...I like the green GI foam pads, too. I'm thinking of cutting mine down to about hip length to save a bit of bulk.
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And I added to the length of mine for comfort. When I make these excursions, everyone I invite weenies out, so it is always solo. And it is always with a canoe, so weight is not a big factor. My average canoe over the years has minimum safe freeboard with 800# on board, including myself for 180# of it. No, I don't carry this much ever, but I can camp in relative comfort and safety, and take game and fish as opportunities arise. No mooses here, nor elk, but a deer dressed and quartered adds about 60-100#, a feral hog or goat 30-150#. My sleeping bag, rolled tightly and stuffed into a rubber bag is 20" wide and 24" tall on end. I'm not sure what it weighs, but I'd hate to carry it far.

One of my favorite tarp setups is a "baker" style, like half an A-frame tent with an open face to a fire. The open side can be closed by dropping the "awning" on that side. Here is an example:
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...10516&osCsid=9bbf7320fda3459c756c948df8933170

Codger
 
Way-O said:
That truck cover canvas must be pretty heavy to haul along..?
Click to expand...

A whole truck cover would be. A section isn't, unless you are backpacking, then you get down to more fragile treated synthetic cloth types.
 
Yeah, I was thinking of backpacking. I like to keep all my essential gear down to a weight I can carry comfortably, regardless of how I'm traveling.
 
Coldwood said:
We've talked a lot here about stringing tarps up as a shelter. I've had a lot of good experience just pulling a tarp over my sleeping bag and head to keep warm, whether it was a blue plastic tarp or cotton canvas painter's tarp treated with Thompson's Water Seal.

So: High shelter or low shelter? Whaddya think?
Click to expand...

Coldwood.... are ya out of your mind;);) :D

As mentioned before.... condensation is going to be your biggest problem enemy when the (tarp meets the the mat so to speak) Me... I would tie that puppy up as close to me as possible.
 
No Tarmix, I am not out of my mind :D thank you very much ;)

What I'm saying is this: lay the tarp down on the ground...it's a vapor barier and ground cloth...put your sleeping bag down on it and crawl in...then pull the other half over on top of you, covering head and feet...it works, good vapor barier top and bottom...condensation is not a problem in my experience (well yeah, there will be some, maybe, if it's a problem then you can just flip off the cover and dry out)...might not work at 30 below zero (and we get that up here), but then you're screwed anyway.
 
Coldwood said:
What I'm saying is this: lay the tarp down on the ground...it's a vapor barier and ground cloth...put your sleeping bag down on it and crawl in...then pull the other half over on top of you, covering head and feet...it works, good vapor barier top and bottom...condensation is not a problem in my experience (well yeah, there will be some, maybe, if it's a problem then you can just flip off the cover and dry out)...might not work at 30 below zero (and we get that up here), but then you're screwed anyway.
Click to expand...

Coldwood, I'm afraid I have to go with tarmix on this one. A vapour barrier works if it's next to your skin, preventing the moisture given off by your body from permeating the insulation of the sleeping bag. If it is covering your sleeping bag, it's even worse because it's trapping all the moisture given off by your body in your sleeping bag, including some that would just pass on through. While winter camping, we usually get frost on the top, outside of our sleeping bags, from the moisture given off by our bodies condensing on the cold layers and freezing.

We used to use the vapour barrier idea with winter footwear. We'd wrap our feet in a plastic grocery bag, then put on our heavy socks, and then another grocery bag. This whole assembly was then put in the boot. The sock (insulative layer) was waterproofed on both sides, therefore, never losing any of its insulative qualities to moisture. Your feet got somewhat clammy (this could be a problem in a long term scenario) but I've also heard, once it reaches a certain humidity (?) level, it quits putting out perspiration. I don't know if this is true or not.

As to whether to hang the tarp high or low, it would depend on the conditions, size of the tarp, etc.

Doc
 
I occasionally lay down a ground sheet, pad, blankets and the cover myself with a "sportsman's thermal blanket" (heavy duty space blanket). Since I roll around a bit, I tend to somewhat dislodge it, so I often just tack down one side to keep from losing it off of me.

It reflects my body heat back at me and if a light to medium rain comes up, I just curl up so that it cover all of me. I would string a tarp in serious weather.

If you scroll down on this page, you can see what I'm talking about. :D

http://www.wanderingones.com/Keennews/IcicleTrip.html

Clint Hollingsworth
 
If you get your sleeping bag/blankets wet, it would be nice if the Dire God Murphy made it sunny and dry to allow you to correct that problem, but it is often otherwise. :(

Absent a true "vapor barrier" (explained by Doc-Canada) or 100% relative humidity against your skin, your skin is losing 98.6 F water vapor all the time (in an effort to create 100% RE). That vapor will condense into liquid water on the first surface it touches that is at or below Dew Point (link above). (Try breathing on cold window glass. 50's is certainly cold enough.)

If it is cold enough, liquid water condensing on your tarp may then freeze, as Brother Codger has observed. It may then thaw with the rise of temps in the morning. Can I get a "Drip, drip, drip" from the congregation?

Also, you are constantly breathing out warm water vapor. Given the right (and very common) conditions, it will condense to some degree on the underside of a tarp above you. Gravity will then take it somewhere.

Each of these circumstances militate towards ventilation, as opposed to contact between the tarp and your insulation layers.
 
Doc, and others, thanks for your comments. I have to admit that I have never done any serious "Winter" camping, but I have slept out under the stars on the snow when the temperatures got below freezing. I found that wrapping a vapor barrier like a blue tarp, or water-proofed canvas, around and under my sleeping bag worked for me (and these are not light-weight back-packable covers). No noticeable condensation or moisture problems. Under more extreme conditions this might not work.
 
my freind and i have gone out on the driveway in the middle of the winter and fallen asleep, only to wake up an hour later with snow falling on us (we got up and went inside) we were wearing heavy winter clothes, but staying warm in teh winter is not thathard, as long as you are careful
 
Siguy. LMAO. That is a true survival situation. What did your wives, if you have any, do? :D
 
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