Tarptents revisted (and seeking advice on minimal shelter for backpacking)

[bulgron]

Well, shoot, you guys have got me wishing that I'd gone with the tarp tent instead of the bivy/tarp combo that I'm using right now. That Moment looks like it's a whole lot easier to set up than trying to figure out how to pitch the tarp.

The good news is, in California it rarely rains during the summer (except in the mountains) so the tarp really isn't that necessary except, maybe, as a wind break. Almost always I just sleep under the stars. I use the bivy if it's buggy. I plan on using the bivy and tarp together if it ever gets really rainy, but I haven't run into that yet. Maybe this summer in the Sierra? We'll see.

Next year I was planning on trying out hammocks (the tarp I have will work well for a hammock). But maybe going to a tarp tent is a little more practical.

 

[HikingMano]

Yeah, I agree. It rarely rains in the summer, just fog along the coast. I like the versatility for 3-season though, and I like being protected from mosquitos, bugs, and ticks with the net (without being confined). Not to mention the ease of set-up over a normal tarp and the ability to free-stand the tent.

The only thing I'm worried about is the condensation with the single wall. Norcalblacktail told me a story about a 4 day hunting trip he and two buddies did in a tarptent. It rained day and night the whole trip, and rain falling on the tent would shake droplets of condensation off the tarp and onto them. Not fun with the down bag he was using. That's the reason I ordered the optional liner for the Moment. If rain is forecast, I'll add a little weight and bring the liner along to see if it adds some protection.

Bulgron, I seem to recall you're in or near the bay area, if you want to check out the Moment in person before pulling the trigger on one of your own, just let me know :thumbup:

 

[bulgron]

Bulgron, I seem to recall you're in or near the bay area, if you want to check out the Moment in person before pulling the trigger on one of your own, just let me know :thumbup:

Thanks for the offer!

If I ever do decide to go with a tarp tent, I'll let you know. But right now I'm pretty fascinated by the whole hammock camping thing, so I think that will be my next experiment.

One of the reasons why I decided on a tarp/bivy combo when I decided to stop hauling around a 10 lb tent was so I could use the tarp with a hammock. Problem is, lately I haven't been spending a lot of time where there's trees. But maybe next year I can try some different trips.

 

[HikingMano]

That was my concern with the hammock; there are are quite a few places I want to backpack here in CA that don't seem to offer a good environment for hammocks. I'm want to check out hammocks after the tarptent, so that'll be my following experiment :thumbup:

 

[hollowdweller]

Yeah, I agree. It rarely rains in the summer, just fog along the coast. I like the versatility for 3-season though, and I like being protected from mosquitos, bugs, and ticks with the net (without being confined). Not to mention the ease of set-up over a normal tarp and the ability to free-stand the tent.

The only thing I'm worried about is the condensation with the single wall. Norcalblacktail told me a story about a 4 day hunting trip he and two buddies did in a tarptent. It rained day and night the whole trip, and rain falling on the tent would shake droplets of condensation off the tarp and onto them. Not fun with the down bag he was using. That's the reason I ordered the optional liner for the Moment. If rain is forecast, I'll add a little weight and bring the liner along to see if it adds some protection.

Bulgron, I seem to recall you're in or near the bay area, if you want to check out the Moment in person before pulling the trigger on one of your own, just let me know :thumbup:

Depending on conditions you will almost always have some condensation on a single wall tent. Goes with the territory.

The wife and I were laughing one time. We had the Golite Hex 3 staked down to the ground where little air was coming in under the bottom and it got down below freezing that night. In the morning if we hit the sides we were "snowed" on by our frozen breaths that had condensed on the tent wall.

IMO the one thing to consider is that the single wall shelter be tall, wide or whatever enough that you can move around and get in or out of without bumping it and knocking the condensation off.

Of course you are laying in there and get a big rain and the rain itself can knock the droplets off!

However going solo in the Hex 3 I don't generate enough condensation to get the inside wet any so it's a matter of how much moisture, wind and outside temp.

 

[HikingMano]

Good stuff HD :thumbup: Having it "snow" in your tent must have been an amusing experience indeed.

Yeah, i figured condesation is just part of the deal. The Moment seems to have have adequate headroom for me, and I can get in it via a side door. I think the side entrance/exit is easier to use (for example, vs. the TT Contrail), especially when talking about minimizing contact with the walls. Anyway, based on the reviews I've seen, it seems like an easily managed/addressed issue in most situations, so I'm not too worried. Between pitching for maximum ventilation, wiping down if needed, or using the liner, I don't foresee too much of a problem with me or my down bag getting wet.

 

[statius]

I've used my Squall 2 with bathtub bottom in -15C weather, no condensation problems. I've used it in a 24 hour straight rain and sleet storm at 3000m in the Rockies (summer!) and no condensation or water problems. I faced a pretty crazy wind storm one night in Turbine Canyon (named for a creek, not the wind). I had a problem there. There was no wind when I set up and when the storm hit I was facing the wrong way. My tarp tent blew over and since I was using hiking poles, the steel tip that you stick in the grommet up top caused a small tear. I think that's the only weakness, and I've since avoided using hiking poles and instead simply tie the attached rope to a tree and make sure the whole thing is very taut for wind whenever possible. Other than that, I simply love the lightness and ease of setting up (I can throw mine up in about one minute).

Here's some shots of it and where I use it.

 

[HikingMano]

Thanks for sharing your experience Statius :thumbup: And that is some beautiful country

 

[neeman]

I am out of touch with new equipment...

When camping alone, I used a US army poncho for everything

When not camping alone, I used to have a bug tent with a full flysheet for rain
It was very light and easy to set up and good in heavy rain

How would a bug tent compare in weight and usage to tarps, tarptents and bivi bags?

 

[kgd]

I am out of touch with new equipment...

When camping alone, I used a US army poncho for everything

When not camping alone, I used to have a bug tent with a full flysheet for rain
It was very light and easy to set up and good in heavy rain

How would a bug tent compare in weight and usage to tarps, tarptents and bivi bags?

I was sort of thinking the same. A cleverly rigged bug net paired with a silnylon tarp would seem to work pretty nicely. Albeit, you will be making poles/ridgelines on the fly. I've yet to encounter a place where I couldn't hang my hammock, but figure I could use it as a bivy and pole-hang the netting as a makeshift bivy if I really needed to. Now I gotta go try that out and see how it works!

 

[bulgron]

I was sort of thinking the same. A cleverly rigged bug net paired with a silnylon tarp would seem to work pretty nicely. Albeit, you will be making poles/ridgelines on the fly. I've yet to encounter a place where I couldn't hang my hammock, but figure I could use it as a bivy and pole-hang the netting as a makeshift bivy if I really needed to. Now I gotta go try that out and see how it works!

Come play in the mountains above the treeline, and I'll show you places where you can't hang your hammock.

Actually, coastal California can be a tough sell for hammocks too, from about the middle of the state and south. I suppose it's possible to find trees suitable for hanging a hammock, but it isn't nearly as easy as in the north woods.

I say this as someone who really wants to try camping hammocks. But I'm afraid to do it because of the ecosystems I run around in.

 

[fmajor007]

I've a Tarptent Cloudburst II and it's been awesome for the last 2 years. I made sure to seal the seams properly against rain and i stake it out pretty tight to minimize the uncomfortable "kite feeling" in strong winds. Yes, silnylon is not water-proof, but does a pretty good job nevertheless - usually a hard, wind-driven rain storm causes a 'misting' inside the tent, but the affect is minimal unless over extended periods.

I'm not in the backpacking hammock camp either, though i do really enjoy hammocks - just to many needs for a hammock to work out well (namely trees for support, but there are other considerations).

 

[kgd]

Come play in the mountains above the treeline, and I'll show you places where you can't hang your hammock.

I can understand that. I'm not a hammock freak and I prefer going to ground in the winter or cold temps where I find it far more convenient to build my insulation on the ground rather than screwing with workarounds for the hammock. A tent with its own frame clearly has advantages above the tree line and would be better than a tarp also. Good luck on your hunt.

 

[bulgron]

I've a Tarptent Cloudburst II and it's been awesome for the last 2 years. I made sure to seal the seams properly against rain and i stake it out pretty tight to minimize the uncomfortable "kite feeling" in strong winds. Yes, silnylon is not water-proof, but does a pretty good job nevertheless - usually a hard, wind-driven rain storm causes a 'misting' inside the tent, but the affect is minimal unless over extended periods.

So for environments where a wind-driven rain storm is a high possibility, would you advise carrying a bivy to be used inside the tarp tent, use a double walled tent instead of a tarp tent, or just suck it up and deal with the misting?

 

[bulgron]

I can understand that. I'm not a hammock freak and I prefer going to ground in the winter or cold temps where I find it far more convenient to build my insulation on the ground rather than screwing with workarounds for the hammock.

Yeah, the other day I was looking at a series of videos where some guys were using hammocks in the dead of a Minnesota winter. They were trying all these insulation techniques to keep warm. Meanwhile, I'm thinking that snow is pretty soft (comfy to lay on -- no rocks jabbing you), and there's no bugs, so why bother with a hammock? In fact, I did a lot of winter camping in Minnesota back in the day. I just used two ground pads for insulation, two sleeping bags for warmth, and then a lean-to or something to keep the wind off of me. I suppose these days I'd be tempted to try using a tarp to block the wind, but even a snow trench can do the job.

This is the first of the videos I was watching. I found them tremendously entertaining in a "I'd never do that" kind of a way.

[video=youtube;j0F06oZeq64]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0F06oZeq64[/video]

 

[HikingMano]

So for environments where a wind-driven rain storm is a high possibility, would you advise carrying a bivy to be used inside the tarp tent, use a double walled tent instead of a tarp tent, or just suck it up and deal with the misting?

Just got back from camping, but ditto on this question :thumbup: Have to read through this thread again later to see if I missed anything.


ETA:

I am out of touch with new equipment...

When camping alone, I used a US army poncho for everything

When not camping alone, I used to have a bug tent with a full flysheet for rain
It was very light and easy to set up and good in heavy rain

How would a bug tent compare in weight and usage to tarps, tarptents and bivi bags?

I was sort of thinking the same. A cleverly rigged bug net paired with a silnylon tarp would seem to work pretty nicely. Albeit, you will be making poles/ridgelines on the fly. I've yet to encounter a place where I couldn't hang my hammock, but figure I could use it as a bivy and pole-hang the netting as a makeshift bivy if I really needed to. Now I gotta go try that out and see how it works!

I had thought about this option, but I'm really liking the ease and speed of set-up with the tarp tents. Simple, no fuss, can free-stand (depending on model) if necessary.

 

[HornyToad]

I'll give that book a look, if I can find it :thumbup:

Yes, the bug relief is the main reason I'm looking at the tarp tents (aside from the built in waterproof tub floor). A bivy would work too...I just think I'd prefer having room. And getting a bivy would eliminate the option of having the GF along. I've toyed with the idea of making my own no-see-um net to string up under my tarp, and getting some kind of waterproof ground cover, but those tarp tents would require less effort on my part, and they seem pretty darn easy to set up.

ETA: Anyone have issues with condensation in using their tarptents?

Tradja did a PCT hike last year and used this setup:

Tarp and bug house These pics are from the CDT, but it’s the same rig this time. Both are homemade from the Ray Jardine kits. The tarp is currently set up out back drying out from a new dose of silicone spray. If/when these wear out, I’ll totally build a new one. This is my second, and my first went almost 400 nights. I’ve used this and the first one in everything from Baja sun to multiple 18” Rocky Mountain blizzards to a crazy microburst-style windstorm in Corsica that destroyed every other tent in the campground.
We’ll start with the bug house, but may send it ahead to the Sierra. We’ll probably ditch the bug house at the OR-WA border as fall approaches.

Here is the link to the the thread if you missed it:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/718805-Pacific-Crest-Trail-thru-hike-this-summer

 

[HikingMano]

Yeah, I've seen Ray's Tarp and Net-Tent kits, but I don't have a sewing machine. Tradja's thread first gave me the idea of looking for a bug tent to hookup under my tarp. The price for Ray's stuff is nice ($116 for both tarp and net kits), if you're willing to put in the time and work.

Actually, now that I think about it, my GF has a little sewing machine that might be able to do the job. I'd need to practice some machine sewing first though; I'd hate to order the kit and mess it up due to lack of experience with a sewing machine.

Anyway, I've already ordered the Moment, so I'll be giving that a go first. If I don't like it, I'll sell it off and maybe give Ray's kit a try.


ETA: Just received tracking info for my Moment, I should be receiving it tomorrow. Wow, I hadn't expected it to get here so quickly. The website said it was on backorder 2-3 weeks.

 

[norcalblacktail]

Love my Tarptent Rainshadow 2.:thumbup: But gonna love my 6-man tipi with stove and 4 goats more.