Taylor Brand Knives!!

I had Old Timers since the Mid 1970'S I owned over 20 and broke or lost about 10 of them. The 2 Taylor ones I got this year are equal to the old Schrade and Imperial lines. If you want to talk about fit and finish and overall quality you will find plenty that will tell you the Pre 1972 Schrade Waldens and the same age Cases were some of the finest ever made till Canel Street and Northwoods.
 
22-rimfire said:
It has taken some time since Taylor Brands purchased the Schrade and Camillus trademarks, but they are having produced some pretty good knives for the money these days overall. I haven't purchased any yet, but I have no objections any more to doing so if I feel the knife will do what I need it to do. But I do tend to stick to a few brands overall and those aren't one of them even if they cost a bit more.

The point above about Frost Cutlery (Chattanooga) makes me wonder. I don't see why Frost slip joints aren't just as good as Rough Riders or Colt slip joints, but the Rough Riders and Colt's seem to be better overall. These folks are all pretty connected to each other in the industry.
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The frost brand ones are Pakistani crap, but steel the Steel warrior knives are almost as good as rough rider and I've heard good things about occoe river folders.
The frost family knives are OK too ( functionally anyway, as mine has a poorly executed shell pattern on the bolsters )

No back to the topic of Taylor brand schrade's I just remembered the biggest reason why o won't buy a one of them. I will always go with carbon steel when I have the choice and won't own a stainless Steel Shcrade pocket knife ( both my old timers are carbon and IMHO a true Shcrade should have carbon steel blades )
 
I own a bunch of Smith & Wessons. Been using for years. No problems yet.
 
Well that's just the point.Plenty of small name China brands out there that do the job with comparable or better quality than the current Schrade pocket knives.Once you go down the road of when the maker of the original product made their knives much better the cheap side of China starts to show itself through the new product.Imagine if Buck Knives fell and Taylor bought the brand and designs.People would experience 119's with variable/coin-toss ratio blade wobble out of the box.Great you can fix that but if the aluminum pommel is epoxy glued on the handle...could be an issue.The Chinese equivalent steel to 420HC might not be hardened as well.The handle might be plastic instead of phenolic resin.Sheath might be leather but thinner in material versus the originals.But hey people are paying $25-$30 instead of $50.And then the older people 10-20 years later who praise the USA originals the new Buck buyers are saying 'I don't get what's with these must have American Buck Knives fans...the China model is satisfactory to me'.If you experienced a knife brand when it existed you expect the new maker to hold the same standards.

It's more fair to give any praise to any new knives put out by Schrade/Taylor Cutlery that never existed from the original line-up in Schrade Walden/Imperial Schrade's history.But I'll ask this... 'If those new knives possessed some generic name that you never heard of and not Schrade what ratio of people do you think would buy it other than it's cheap'?Because Taylor needs the Schrade name to sell it...I rest my case.
 
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I incorrectly listed Taylor as buying the Camillus trademark. I believe that was Ace out of New England. They also purchased DMT. I visited with them at their booth at Blade a bit.

I don't believe there is any Pakistani "crap" with the Frost name on it unless it is some sword. They are all made in China and I don't know if there is any difference between the Ocoee brand relative to the others they have. I have a couple of the Ocoee knives which are in 440A or the Chinese equivalent.
 
22-rimfire said:
I incorrectly listed Taylor as buying the Camillus trademark. I believe that was Ace out of New England. They also purchased DMT. I visited with them at their booth at Blade a bit.
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If I am not mistaken it was Acme United that purchased the rights for Camillus around 2009.
 
I'm certainly in the minority, but I never owned or even handled a "classic" Schrade. I do own a US-made X-Timer XT2B that was presumably one of the last models to come out of the US factory, but also bought (as a gift) a Chinese XT2B that was equal to the original in terms of workmanship, fit and finish. No idea on the steel. Other than that, I do have a couple of their more recent fixed blades, bearing no resemblance to anything produced by Schrade of old. And y'know, that's OK. I also own a recent Camillus Barbarian made in the US (by Tops, rumor has it) but never owned what some folks would call a "real" Camillus. Meanwhile, I have a Cold Steel Carbon V Recon Scout that I've heard was actually built by Camillus. No idea on that either. Simply wasn't a factor.

In other words, the Schrade name really doesn't mean anything to me. I'll let their current products prove themselves, or not. My luck with Smith & Wesson knives has been less than stellar, though.
 
My experience with Taylor Brands was rather decent. To date, I have 13 Smith & Wesson knives and 4 Schrades (their modern folders), and all of them have held up rather well. The 7Cr17 and 8Cr13mov steels perform well enough for what I need to do.

They are also extremely affordable with neat designs. I'd get another S&W or Schrade again in a heartbeat if they can earn enough to keep their prices at this level, especially when they are only marginally more expensive than the Chinese SRMs and Enlans. Of course, this only applies to the China-made knives; Taylor is rather price uncompetitive for the models that are made in Taiwan.
 
22-rimfire said:
I incorrectly listed Taylor as buying the Camillus trademark. I believe that was Ace out of New England. They also purchased DMT. I visited with them at their booth at Blade a bit.

I don't believe there is any Pakistani "crap" with the Frost name on it unless it is some sword. They are all made in China and I don't know if there is any difference between the Ocoee brand relative to the others they have. I have a couple of the Ocoee knives which are in 440A or the Chinese equivalent.
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The slipjoints that saw frost cutlery on them with their eagle logo are Pakistani crap.
They're typically what they call their " 1400 series " and are listed/ stamped as using German stainless rostfrei.
My dad currently edc's a large Pakistani frost lockback that seems to have good steel ( he's been edcing it for months and it's still very sharp ) but has poor fit / finish in all other departments.
Here's the box all in folded
 
Frotier76 said:
Well Grogimus...here's an example of flaws I saw with the 885UH by Uncle Henry and 8OT of Old Timer...

*Both had some really deformed handle center pins that felt sharp.Definitely a Dremel job to file all that out

*Sheepsfoot and Spey blade were really thinned down to a flimsy level versus the original models

*Handle material as I stated I believe to be plastic.The imitation stag look on the 885UH was just awful.It looked like a few worm grooves with a flash of brown spray paint across it.Pretty crooked Uncle Henry shield.

*Somewhat of a fairly wider scale and bolsters resulting in a very subtle stockman shape versus the finer machining work of the originals.Looks chunkier versus the sleekness of the old Schrades.

*I found the stainless steel to be very soft/poorly treated in my opinion

Beyond that good snap to it and reasonably sharp though I could praise Rite Edge or Kissing Crane alone on these positive traits found on a lot of Chinese brands.
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I also have a Schrade 885UH. Actually, I have two. One made by Schrade-US. The other made by Taylor Schrade in China.

►Neither has a deformed pin. Both have springs which are not quite flat in the closed position.

►The Chinese sheepsfoot and Spey are thinner because they are designed to be offset instead of crincked. I did not find them flimsy. Rather, I found them to be very good at slicing. Partly because of the absence of crinking, the Chinese Sheepsfoot sat lower in the handle in the closed position. I found it more comfortable in the hand when using the other blades compared to the US model. Also, because the sheepsfoot is offset instead of crinked, I find the blade easier to use because it comes straight out of the knife instead of coming out at an angle.

►Both the Chinese and US Uncle Henry knives have plastic covers. The coloration on the Chinese covers is a bit different than that of the US covers. I personally appreciate that. You can tell at a glance that the knife is not a US Schrade. But the cover material works just as well.

►The blade alloys are extremely close in composition. I have spent a lot of time doing side by side edge retention tests of various knives. I have a fair number of threads in the Testing Forum. I tested the two knives side-by-side cutting manila rope. The Chinese version held an edge at least as well as the US Schrade.

I agree that the original Schrade Uncle Henry and Old Timer lines were designed to put a decent knife in the hands of the average working man. The ones I have handled over the years had average fit and finish. I wish the company had not gone bankrupt. But, they did.

Taylor bought the name legally. Their early efforts at making knives in China were pretty sketchy. Their current efforts are both reasonable and of approximately the same quality as the US knives. Nostalgic, they are not. I don't collect them. I bought several to see if they currently make a decent pocket knife. My opinion is that they do.

The original post in this thread was about Taylor ripping off designs. I don't see that happening. They bought the names legally. They are open about what the knives are and where they are made. Whether someone wants to buy one or not is up to them. But I don't see any chicanery about Taylor's efforts and to answer the OP, that's why no one rags on Taylor Brands.
 
Hickory n steel said:
Me or the op ?
If it's me, I don't remember what they were but I remember a s&w knife or two that looked like other knives ( I think they have one that looks like the Gerber paraframe and another that looks like a crkt m16 )

If you were talking to the op, you won't get any examples because Taylor brands didn't rip off any designs ( I believe they had the rights to make a version of the crk survival knife if that's one he's thinking of )
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The CK400L looks a bit like the paraframe but I don't see how that is a rip off. The paraframes use nail nicks for opening, the CK400L uses a thumbstud. and overall, while it looks very similar, it's not a paraframe. And the skeletonized pattern on the CK400L does not resemble the paraframe's in any way.

Also, I don't remember S&W ever having anything that remotely resembles the CRKT M16. The closest I can think of is S&W's OASIS series, and I fail to see how any reasonable person could confuse the OASIS for an M16. Or even an M21, for that matter. Gerber, on the other hand, has the EVO series which are very similar to the M16 series.

What I do notice is that Taylor Brands seemingly uses modified versions of their modern Schrade designs to sell under the S&W branding.
 
Etna said:
The CK400L looks a bit like the paraframe but I don't see how that is a rip off. The paraframes use nail nicks for opening, the CK400L uses a thumbstud. and overall, while it looks very similar, it's not a paraframe. And the skeletonized pattern on the CK400L does not resemble the paraframe's in any way.

Also, I don't remember S&W ever having anything that remotely resembles the CRKT M16. The closest I can think of is S&W's OASIS series, and I fail to see how any reasonable person could confuse the OASIS for an M16. Or even an M21, for that matter. Gerber, on the other hand, has the EVO series which are very similar to the M16 series.

What I do notice is that Taylor Brands seemingly uses modified versions of their modern Schrade designs to sell under the S&W branding.
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What I was saying is that the closest thing to a rip off you'll see from Taylor brands are a few knives that kinda look like other knives, meaning that they aren't involved in the world of shady Chinese counterfeits.
 
Hickory n steel said:
The slipjoints that saw frost cutlery on them with their eagle logo are Pakistani crap.
They're typically what they call their " 1400 series " and are listed/ stamped as using German stainless rostfrei.
My dad currently edc's a large Pakistani frost lockback that seems to have good steel ( he's been edcing it for months and it's still very sharp ) but has poor fit / finish in all other departments.
Here's the box all in folded
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The old Parker-Frost knives used the eagle logo as I recall. (Added: The eagle is a Parker logo.) I looked at Frost Cutlery's website and it appears that Frost and Buzz Parker (Jim Parker's son) have a line of imported knives now. Frost never was below board in representing their knives. They come right out and say that they are imported and made in China for them. They are shipped to their facility, inspected, and boxed there. How do you know that something labeled as German Rostfrei steel is made in Pakistan? Does it say that on the packaging or knife?

I believe Smoky Mountain Knife Works was started by Jim Parker's brother. More than likely Jim helped to finance the operation during its early days in Sevierville TN. Their Rough Rider brand are fairly good and a value for the money. The Frost Steel Warrior branding may be something akin to the Rough Riders. Just guessing on that. My understanding is that a lot of the collection from the closed knife museum in Chattanooga (started by Jim Parker) are now at Smoky Mt Knife Works' facility.
 
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knarfeng said:
I
But I don't see any chicanery about Taylor's efforts and to answer the OP, that's why no one rags on Taylor Brands.
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Really? There are at least a handful of posts in the forum ragging on how a Taylor Schrade is not a 'real' Schrade.

Or how Taylor knives are junk. While completely forgetting that CRKT, Kershaw, SOG, Gerber and other popular brands are using the same Chinese steel in their products but charging much more. :cool:

And even though i have a sizable amount of Taylor knives, i remain peeved off by how they just can't make a proper flipper to save their lives. Not a single Taylor flipper, be it under the s&w or Schrade brands, have ever been able to be deployed successfully. Useless, shitty non-existant detent. :grumpy:
 
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Etna said:
Really? There are at least a handful of posts in the forum ragging on how a Taylor Schrade is not a 'real' Schrade.

Or how Taylor knives are junk. While completely forgetting that CRKT, Kershaw, SOG, Gerber and other popular brands are using the same Chinese steel in their products but charging much more. :cool:

And even though i have a sizable amount of Taylor knives, i remain peeved off by how they just can't make a proper flipper to save their lives. Not a single Taylor flipper, be it under the s&w or Schrade brands, have ever been able to be deployed successfully. Useless, shitty non-existant detent. :grumpy:[/QUOTE

Why keep buying the flippers?
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I agree. Why do you keep buying them? Taylor does not misrepresent their knives based on what I know about them. They own the Schrade trademark and can do with it as they please. You get what you get.
 
Gotta love these hit and run threads where the OP shows up with an extremely strong opinion and doesn't stick around to defend it.

Is Rough Rider a Taylor brand? If so, I like 'em. Good quality for the price.
 
Rough Rider is not a Taylor brand.

I have two Taylor Old Timers. One is a decent knife for the money (93OT) and I occasionally use it. The other had fit/finish problems and I don't use it (34OTB).

I have two Rough Riders, which are made as a "house brand" for SMKW. The Rough Riders are both better knives than either of the two Taylor knives and cost less.
 
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