Techniques for Ghosting and Patterning of Hamons for Beauty?

TK Steingass

TK Steingass

Troglodyte Knifemaker
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
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Hi fellas:

As some of you may know, I'm a stock removal guy. However, I've always admired the beauty of a well executed hamon, so I decided to incorporate it into my designs. Don Hanson III was kind enough to explain to me how he achieves a hamon and I incorporated his technique using W-2, 1095, and Satanite. Here are a few examples - as you can see, about the best I can get is a wavy hamon line:

Maple.jpg

Sguard1.jpg

Bowie-1.jpg


What I can't seem to achieve is the ghosting and texturing patterns that are stunning - here's a couple great examples of what I'd like to try and achieve:

600_RandyStonebrook2.jpg

firefighter09.jpg


I hate to call Mr. Andersen or Hanson to bother them on the phone - we're all so busy filling orders. I was wondering if some of you Bladesmiths out there would be kind enough to share how you apply your clay to achieve these results.

Take care,

TK
 
A pic of your clay layout would be helpful to see what you are doing.
From just the blades, I think you need to mix your clay thinner, apply less of it, and I think you aren't heating the blades thoroughly enough.
The second one is a nice looking knife but the 1/3 of the blade in front of the ricasso isn't hardened properly and the hamon dropping off the edge shows that.
If you are quenching into oil, make sure the whole blade is at temp. Do you HT in a kiln? You'll have to play with your time a bit as I think you are quenching too early.
 
Stuart:

Thanks for the input - I do put the clay on rather thick - about 1/8" thick. I use a kiln, digitally controlled, heat treat to 1500, hold for five minutes, then quench in Parks 50.
 
I won't be any help but I think your knives are beautiful! If you'd be willing to share your process in detail that would be great!
 
How much steel is being removed post heat treat? I have been experimenting with hamons and am finding the whispy lines and finer details can be ground away, I think the depth of hardening is very shallow and there is only a small area where the "clouds" sit.

Quench temp, finish grit, etc plays a big role as noted.

I have some W2 just calling me, lol I have to go! :D
 
you can go lower in temp than 1500 also, I usually use 1450. Since you have a kiln, parks 50 and satinite, you are using the same tools as many others that create great hamon. I would also suggest thinning the clay and also making ashi lines from the clay toward the edge. Also polishing and photographing can be just as much as a challange as getting the desired structures in the steel to show off the hamon.
 
TK, first off, beautiful knives!
I have tried clay tempered hamons with the same results you have gotten. The results aren't bad, they just aren't as good as some others get.
I have asked more than one knifemaker who gets the spectacular hamons to post pictures of their clay designs before heat treat.
Everyone I have asked has for what ever reason not done so.
Some say there are no secrets in knifemaking, but I think that maybe there are some.
 
I'll jump in and say, I've seen Don's clayed up blades and they look pretty much like the finished product.

The 1450 temp on W2 pretty much dead on. Think thin when applying the clay and make sure your blade is perfectly clean. You should have to scrap the clay off after HT. A fast oil is also a must. Like parks 50.

If you can view the ABS forum look for John Whites detailed instructions on hamons it's excellent.

Dave from Diller
 
Fellas:

Many thanks to all of you that have jumped in! A few things I've learned so far - I'm going a bit too hot, I'll drop it down to 1450, I use too much clay - too thick, I'm not putting on a thin coat first, I'll get better character on W-2 than 1095, and I'm probably grinding away some of the character by leaving the blade too thick prior to quench. I'll review the threads in detail and get down to my W-2 that's waiting for me.
 
dsloan said:
I'll jump in and say, I've seen Don's clayed up blades and they look pretty much like the finished product.

The 1450 temp on W2 pretty much dead on. Think thin when applying the clay and make sure your blade is perfectly clean. You should have to scrap the clay off after HT. A fast oil is also a must. Like parks 50.

If you can view the ABS forum look for John Whites detailed instructions on hamons it's excellent.

Dave from Diller
Click to expand...

Thank you Dave!
 
 
JMJones said:
you can go lower in temp than 1500 also, I usually use 1450. Since you have a kiln, parks 50 and satinite, you are using the same tools as many others that create great hamon. I would also suggest thinning the clay and also making ashi lines from the clay toward the edge. Also polishing and photographing can be just as much as a challange as getting the desired structures in the steel to show off the hamon.
Click to expand...

Thank you JM - I agree with you - I'm using clay that's too thick. Appreciate your help
 
A little late to the party. But like said 1450 is the number for W2 and it takes very little clay.

And practice, practice, practice! My first dozen blades where not much to look at.
 
In addition to Stacy's links I have a few more. When I first set out to do hammons I read everything.

I would suggest lowering your temperature to ~1450 as others have suggested, maybe even judging by eye or magnet. I think maybe your clay is not properly applied (too thick?). try putting some ashi lines on with clay, or a more creative pattern. Also have you considered an interrupted quench? Water for 3 seconds then canola oil till cool. I love interrupted quench

general process
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/663988-Clay-Quench-Question
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/552059-Clay-coating-blades
http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=3308
temperature discussion
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/565276-What-temperature-should-water-be-at-for-1084
inturupted quench
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/568295-Interrupted-Quenching
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/891100-Water-Quench/page2
pictures
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ife-with-Hamon-*updated-with-final-pics-4-10*
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/876093-Question-on-applying-clay-on-blades
 
Last edited:
Another great thread just wanted to say thanks this forum could definitely benefit from some sort of karma system.
 
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