Terrible day at work...

jsmatos

jsmatos

Joined
Apr 6, 2002
Messages
1,979
I just had the worst day at work today. I just want to get it out so that I can figure out what I'm going to do. Here's what happened:

Last week, I met with a really sweet, trusting elderly lady who came to see me in connection with her purchase of her home back in March. This woman purchased this property for $165,000.00 (her and her 92 y/o sister's life's savings) from this guy that she knew through her church. Unfortunately, my client is a terribly unsophisticated woman, and the whole transaction occurred on a coffee table in the house. There was no title search. The contract consisted of two paragraphs one being a full incorporation clause. Anyhow, she couldn't understand why she still hasn't gotten the deed from him yet. I searched the county records to see what I could find out, but there was a bunch of stuff listed as "confidential." There were lis pendens on the property that were already stale. I knew something was terribly wrong. So I got a title search on the property and told her I'd get back with her.

I got the title search back today. My worst fears were realized. This piece of garbage sold my client a house that was an asset in a chapter 13 bankruptcy proceeding. There are two mortgagees already on the property that may have superior claims to hers. I'm not sure how it works when the transaction occurs after the bankruptcy filing. What difference does it make, the money is probably gone anyway. The only reason why she's been able to take possession of the property is because there is an automatic stay on the property. Sooner or later, the property will be foreclosed upon, and my client and her sister will be thrown out of her house. To make matters worse, I know that the $165,000.00 is probably gone. She gave it to him back in March. I left several messages for the trustee to find out what implications this is going to have for my client. I know I just outlined my gut instinct on this mess. I've spun it around in my head 1000 times today (hell I'm fixated on the whole thing), and I cannot come up with a good outcome for my client.

I know that I have to tell her what happened. I know that I have to bring her into my office to do it. I called the state attorney's office who directed me to the police department to file a report. I called the police and then hung up because I don't want my client to learn about this from anyone but me. The elderly real estate guy in my office, Doug, came by at the end of the day and asked me if I called the police yet. I told him that I wanted to talk to the trustee first to figure out the implications of everything. He replied, "Jennifer, the man committed a crime. You need to report it. It doesn't matter what the trustee says." I know that I have to report it. I just want to protect my client. I wanted to figure everything out first and have answers for my client. I'm really not procrastinating. I want the guy to be prosecuted in both state and federal courts. I know it's going to happen. I would like him to suffer terribly. But, there is a very sweet lady at the center of this who is going to find out that she will soon lose her house, and she probably won't get any of her money back. Everytime I think about it my heart sinks into my stomach. I started getting teary eyed today just talking to a colleague about it. How am I going to tell this woman about this? She sat in my office the first day and kept saying, "It hurts me in my heart that I may have to bring this man to court to straighten this out. I don't want to hurt him." I told her at the time that she didn't have to worry about him anymore, she needed to worry about herself. :mad: I called her today to get permission to talk to people about the situation, ie, confidentiality. She said, "Oh sweetie, you have my permission to talk to anyone you want. I am so thankful that you are taking care of this for me. I just feel in my heart that something is wrong." I didn't tell her what I know yet, I told her I needed to speak with some people because there are unanswered questions regarding the property. :rolleyes: I know I have to tell her in person. I'll do it tomorrow. :( :( I just don't know how. :( :( Merry Christmas. :mad: :(
 
That has got to be one of the worst things I've ever read. The "man" who did this to them is a real first rate piece of crap. I hope he gets justice in the worst way.

I really fear what the stress of this news will have on them. I figure you've had the same thought.

Good luck, madam, with this awful task.

Tony
 
Good luck on that sad task.
:(
If this was W&C I would have something to say about the $%*#-bag that would do something like that.
Unbelievable.:barf:
 
jsmatos said:
I just had the worst day at work today. I just want to get it out so that I can figure out what I'm going to do. Here's what happened:

Last week, I met with a really sweet, trusting elderly lady who came to see me in connection with her purchase of her home back in March. This woman purchased this property for $165,000.00 (her and her 92 y/o sister's life's savings) from this guy that she knew through her church. Unfortunately, my client is a terribly unsophisticated woman, and the whole transaction occurred on a coffee table in the house. There was no title search. The contract consisted of two paragraphs one being a full incorporation clause. Anyhow, she couldn't understand why she still hasn't gotten the deed from him yet. I searched the county records to see what I could find out, but there was a bunch of stuff listed as "confidential." There were lis pendens on the property that were already stale. I knew something was terribly wrong. So I got a title search on the property and told her I'd get back with her.

I got the title search back today. My worst fears were realized. This piece of garbage sold my client a house that was an asset in a chapter 13 bankruptcy proceeding. There are two mortgagees already on the property that may have superior claims to hers. I'm not sure how it works when the transaction occurs after the bankruptcy filing. What difference does it make, the money is probably gone anyway. The only reason why she's been able to take possession of the property is because there is an automatic stay on the property. Sooner or later, the property will be foreclosed upon, and my client and her sister will be thrown out of her house. To make matters worse, I know that the $165,000.00 is probably gone. She gave it to him back in March. I left several messages for the trustee to find out what implications this is going to have for my client. I know I just outlined my gut instinct on this mess. I've spun it around in my head 1000 times today (hell I'm fixated on the whole thing), and I cannot come up with a good outcome for my client.

I know that I have to tell her what happened. I know that I have to bring her into my office to do it. I called the state attorney's office who directed me to the police department to file a report. I called the police and then hung up because I don't want my client to learn about this from anyone but me. The elderly real estate guy in my office, Doug, came by at the end of the day and asked me if I called the police yet. I told him that I wanted to talk to the trustee first to figure out the implications of everything. He replied, "Jennifer, the man committed a crime. You need to report it. It doesn't matter what the trustee says." I know that I have to report it. I just want to protect my client. I wanted to figure everything out first and have answers for my client. I'm really not procrastinating. I want the guy to be prosecuted in both state and federal courts. I know it's going to happen. I would like him to suffer terribly. But, there is a very sweet lady at the center of this who is going to find out that she will soon lose her house, and she probably won't get any of her money back. Everytime I think about it my heart sinks into my stomach. I started getting teary eyed today just talking to a colleague about it. How am I going to tell this woman about this? She sat in my office the first day and kept saying, "It hurts me in my heart that I may have to bring this man to court to straighten this out. I don't want to hurt him." I told her at the time that she didn't have to worry about him anymore, she needed to worry about herself. :mad: I called her today to get permission to talk to people about the situation, ie, confidentiality. She said, "Oh sweetie, you have my permission to talk to anyone you want. I am so thankful that you are taking care of this for me. I just feel in my heart that something is wrong." I didn't tell her what I know yet, I told her I needed to speak with some people because there are unanswered questions regarding the property. :rolleyes: I know I have to tell her in person. I'll do it tomorrow. :( :( I just don't know how. :( :( Merry Christmas. :mad: :(
Click to expand...



Jsmatos,my heart is heavy with what you must do tomorrow . So many scumbags hide behind a religious facade & ruin lives.I wish this sweet ,trusting lady had learned this. Most elderly do not want to bother checking things out before handing over the check.

My elderly Aunt was charged $5,000 for two sets of wooden steps , 2 floor jacks & $20 worth of cement work. Two other shysters got her for an equal amount .

When a busunessman/salesman brings up the Lord in a spiel , I,mentally grab my wallet & crotch .

This renews my interest in vigilante justice .

Uncle Alan
 
Thanks guys. I feel like I've entered an alternate universe. It makes me feel better to know that other people are reacting the same as I am to this situation.

I don't think she was being lazy. She strikes me as someone who grew up very poor. Some people, like her, probably think that hiring an attorney is extremely expensive/cost prohibitive. She's just extremely simple. She probably spent her entire life making deals like this and didn't know any better.

Anyhow, I think my plan is to talk to the trustee first. Look into any type of government assistance, I've heard something about section 8 housing, that might be available to help her. Then I'll bring her in and tell her everything. Hopefully, I'll be able to assuage some of her fears with something useful. I know it sounds crazy to tell her about governmental assistance, but it seems like it might be better than to leave her feeling desperate. Otherwise, I'm left to simply tell her that she's going to lose the house and possibly the money too. Then I'll call the police, the feds, the bankruptcy judge, and anyone else that I can think of to get this man off the streets. I hope he loses count of all of the Christmases he's going to spend behind bars. :mad:
 
jen, in our state defrauding the elderly is a special crime; an additional felony, i think. (in addition to Grand theft).
 
When I saw the title, I knew from the git-go that this would depress me.

The elderly are preyed upon because they are easy targets. They usually do not have the sort of education that would enable them to deal with this effectively, and that is certainly true in your case, as they already let the money go.

You do need to report it ASAP, if for no other reason to give the cops and AG as much of a head start as possible. Hopefully, you will find someone reasonable there who will let you explain it to the victims. Perhaps they will have someone accustomed to helping you do this, as well. With FL's numbers of retirees, I doubt if this kind of thing is rare.

I hope that she can recover at least some of her money.

One thing for sure: the crotch curd who did this will not be punished as severely as he deserves. What could he get: a few years? This barnacle on the backside of humanity needs to have his deeds published and his name in full view, so that society will shun him like he deserves.


[mods, I really did try to keep it clean. If I offended anyone, I'll go back and edit.......]
 
Dijos,

There's no doubt about it. I know that this guy broke many laws both state and federal. I don't work in criminal law, but I'm glad to hear that there is enhanced sentencing for people like him.

Shaldag,

I'm going to call the police. I'm still pretty scattered actually. My outline is a rough draft. Who knows I may go in there and do everything at once. I'm just hoping that my boss doesn't ask me if I have a retainer for this because I don't, and I'm not about to ask this woman for any money. Unfortunately, my boss has one priority. I'm going to have to do a lot behind closed doors. Hell, it's on my time anyway. After all, I only get paid on what I produce. He just expects me to spend 100% of my time producing for the firm...
 
You should find out what social support structures this woman has -- does she have family, children, etc?, is she still a member of a church?, bridge club? whatever -- and alert them to this situation because if nothing else this woman is going to need a new place to live and help moving and some emotional support too.
 
How was this money paid? Did she have it all sitting in a bank and she wrote him a check, or did she take a loan and the bank paid him?
 
Forget trustees, get the police involved. This is fraud pure and simple. The POS that sold it had no right to, and he deceived the two ladies into buying it.

Tell your boss advertising your gratis help when it comes to court will be worth thousands.
 
Gollnick said:
You should find out what social support structures this woman has -- does she have family, children, etc?, is she still a member of a church?, ...
Click to expand...
GOOD point. Definitely alert the church, because the sleaze may have defrauded other congregants, too.
 
Jennifer, don't be depressed.

How many other people could this woman have spoken to who would have helped her as much as you will?

Every problem is an opportunity, in this case, an opportunity for you to share your abilities with someone who really, really needs them.
 
In my police career I saw awful things. I can only remember crying three times in thirty years, all of them because of bad things happening to old people.

Reference to British law would be pointless as your system is substantially different from ours.

One thought that occurs to me off the top of my head: Is this lady's mental state such that she might be considered incompetent to sign a legal document? Would an approach along those lines be of benefit?

Report the slag who did this to every legal authority you can find a 'phone number for.

Is there any way in which you can start action to freeze his assets to prevent him from disposing of them to pay off his debts, or from transferring them to a third party?

maximus otter
 
Gollnick said:
You should find out what social support structures this woman has -- does she have family, children, etc?, is she still a member of a church?, bridge club? whatever -- and alert them to this situation because if nothing else this woman is going to need a new place to live and help moving and some emotional support too.
Click to expand...
Good points and I would URGE her to seek her preacher as a character witness for her should this go to court Pro-bono, there are Christian lawyers who specialize in this type of legal matter and I'll call my preachers secretary for advise Jsmatos.That is sad.
 
It would be a damn shame if someone who was all intolerant and judgemental got a hold of that scumbags's name and DOB/ social security number/address/description/ vehice info and posted them anonomously all over the internet.

I mean ,somone who did that, say from a computer in a library or a internet cafe using a trackless email would be encouraging vigilante justice.

We wouldn't want that.

Take Care,
Jeff
 
Sorry to hear you had such a bad day & this lowlife has done something so awful. My own sister has been stitched up by a s**t too. She worked in a local home improvement store run by her father-in-law, he's alway treated her badly, was a bully & sent her home regularly in tears, many times ive been physically restrained from going round to "put him straight". Well, my sisters husband cheated on her whilst working away & left her with loads of debts and theyve split up. She stayed at the store coz she got on well with her mother-in-law & liked the local village. Last Thursday that sat her down and said that the register was constantly short & she was gonna be suspended pending an investigation or she could resign & theyd pay her til the end of the year, now shes not very confident & when they talked about investigations, police, custodial sentances etc plus she was on her own with 2 big guys, she was frightened & resigned using the letter that THEY had typed out ready for her.
The thing is, the register is never down as he has them do so much "under-ringing" that its always up, that very night the audit roll read £250 & she actually gave him £370, all exrta cash & all undeclared to the tax man.
Shes been loyal to this man, even defended his name when he was (wrongly, as it turned out!) accused of paedophilia but he's treated her like this. The guy buys a new car with cash every year, has just bought a villa in Spain with cash that he tried to launder thru a friend (asking the friend to take a loan out for him) & he paid my sister £170 per week, a pittance.
Ive told her that shes well away from this scumbag family & have reported him in confidence to customs & excise for tax fraud. Im also telling Everyone that I meet exactly what he did, and though Im ashamed to be stooping so low I also intend to visit the store on Xmas Eve &declare in a very loud voice that MY Xmas wish is for them all to die of cancer & rot in hell. Not proud of myself for that but I feel SO angry that this has happened.
Some people are just s**ts.
 
Well, today is the day. :(

I was thinking about this last night in bed. How often is it that someone has to convey this type of news to someone? Usually the people figure it out on their own and go through their own coping process. I'm really not built for this kind of stuff. That's why I got into the areas of law that I did. They are all positive areas where I can help people. Here, I'm not sure that I can do much more than give her a few bandaids on a gaping wound. I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to tell her without crying myself. I know it sounds pathetic, but it is a real problem for me. I tried to work through it last night in my head, and it didn't work. Anyhow, I don't want to make it worse than it already is going to be for her. I can't even tell her the background and hope that she figures it all out by implication because I know that she won't. It would be nice to be able to tell her while at the same time hiding myself behind some sort of creative language. I've thought about it, but I know that I'm going to have to tell it to her in plain terms.

I woke up this morning hoping that I'm misunderstanding something. I thought maybe the trustee already knows about the sale. It is a reorganization filing after all. Maybe that was acceptable and he gave the check to the trustee to pay down his debt. But, I know that this was a scam. If it were on the up-and-up my client wouldn't have signed a two paragraph document. She would've understood the circumstances of the sale. I'm still wishing that somehow I am proven wrong in my interpretation of this whole thing. I would be okay with that. Hell, I'd be thrilled to be wrong. :(
 
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