Terrible day at work...

There is a special place in hell for the people who prey on the poor and the elderly. This scumbag should rot in hell...

Tell the lady then report it to the police. Maybe have the cop there so he or she can see this womans distress. It will galvanize them to arrest this POS.

This story reminds me of one time in my charity work I was helping this Laotian Immigrant family. They were wonderful people and very hard working but very poor. They out of the goodness of their heart bought a washing machine for their neighbor. The did not understand the implications of financing so the financed it. A year later they called me in tears because two collection agents showed up a their door ( they did not have a phone and this was before the days of wireless, mid 80s) One of the agents after telling them they needed to pay told them that if they didn't they would "take their kids"

This family was terrified because in Laos during the civil war this was common practice. That is why they came to the USA. They tearfully told me this story. They were literally shaking in their shoes...I was furious. I told Hoa and Mativaong that their children were safe and to give me the names of the collection agency.

The next day I stomped into their office and found the asswhole who threatened them. He was some over dressed gum snapping cynical 20 something kid...I wasn't much older but I had one thing he didnt....a LAWYER standing right next to me.

I handed him a check for the entire balance including interest for the washing machine . Then I read him the riot act and introduced him to my friend "Randy" . Randy then proceeded to tell him that if he ever heard about him threatening anybody in the course of his work ever again. Including the Ratavongs, he personally would file suit against his estate and his employer.

the kid turned white as a sheet. I left him with one final word of advice...

Do not threaten the poor...


sorry to hear about these little ladies...hope the scumbag gets caught.
 
Both of my grandmothers have almost been fleeced by the "contractors" that were going to "repair her house". My father got to my mothers mothers house just as the con artists were going into her house, about ten to fifteen years ago, and they almost knocked my father down getting out. The cops said they were a local ring, and were going to investigate.

My fathers mother was called out onto her porch last year, by two guys that said that my grandfather had gotten them to do work on the house. My grandfather died almost four years ago, but she wasn't mean to them, so they stayed until my uncle came up on his lunch break to eat with her, and saw the one guy talking to her by her garage, and the guy who had broken into her house while the other con took her outside, came busting out the front door, and the other con ran past my uncle. Once again, the cops said a ring was working the Baltimore beltway. My fathers mother lives about five miles from my mothers mother, so who knows? Same outcome.

I hate these people that prey on the elderly. I hope that this lady turns out okay. Look for local, state and federal aid for her, you're her best friend right now.
 
Cindy Denning said:
Here's the phone number Jsmatos if this will do some good. 727-399-8300 or the website is www.christianlaw.org can't hurt ti find out.:thumbup:
Click to expand...
AAAARRGGGHHH, I can't find anything out on that site. This is pathetic and it's not your fault Jsmatos.:( Crap.
 
Jen.

I don't envy your predicament and I hope you find some way to bring some justice into this. I agree with Ren that there is a special place in the afterlife for people that prey on the poor and elderly - hopefully this vulture will serve as one of the 72 virgins promised to some "martyred" terrorist. God bless you for your compassion. I sincerely hope somehow this lady finds some comfort and guidance in your words today.

john
 
I just wanted to give anyone who is interested an update on what's happening.

It's been a rough day. I didn't get to tell my client anything about my findings. I called her throughout the day, but her 92 y/o sister kept answering and saying she wasn't home yet but she was on her way. I did reach the bankruptcy trustee. She informed me that the seller included the property in his reorganization plan and chose to keep the property as protected homestead. In other words, he didn't choose to surrender it to the lenders but was going to try to keep it instead. In Florida, homestead property has a lot of protections from creditors. Of course, if you don't pay your mortgage, they can still foreclose on you. Anyhow, she said this man did have the power to sell the property, but he was supposed to seek her approval. She said that she would have given it to him, but she would've also ensured that the sale was done properly and that the monies were applied to pay off the two outstanding mortgages. This wasn't done, and she said that they never received the money. She told me that this isn't something that she saw as criminally punishable. She said that I can file an adversary proceeding and make him come before the court to make him account for the money. Obviously, we don't know how helpful that will be since we don't know if he has any left. Yet, if he does have money, with this being a court of equity, it will give my clients some sort of relief. Meanwhile, the man is in his second year of a five year plan. His payments are barely current. If he fails to make regular payments, the bankruptcy court can kick the bankruptcy out which would free up the lenders to foreclose on the property. If we file a criminal action against this man, and it is successful, his payments will cease, and these women will be thrown out of the house. She also told me that the bankruptcy court may decide to kick it out due to non-compliance with his responsibilities. Any one of those options obviously give us a bad result. We cannot wait out the remaining three years because even if this jerk pays consistently, there will still be mortgage payments on the property until the year 2028.

Since bankruptcy isn't my field, I spent the day talking to bankruptcy attorney after bankruptcy attorney to the point where I got sick of hearing my voice, the story, and their very similar responses. My boss asked me to give him updates because this is such an unusual circumstance. Yet, when I went to update him, he went on and on about how we need money, it takes money to make things happen, it takes money to get relief, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He then asked me how many free hours I had in on it. I lied and told him two and that I charged her in advance for a couple of hours-which I did. He shut up then. Hell, it hurts me a heck of a lot more than it hurts him. :rolleyes: Anyhow, in the end I found a very talented attorney who felt strongly that he might be able to get her some relief. He is an older gentleman who has 35 years of practice under his belt. He agreed to come to my office on Tuesday to meet with her. He agreed to keep me in on everything. I finally reached my client 20 minutes ago and just scheduled the appointment as a follow-up. She said to me, "I am so happy to hear from you. Thank you so much for staying on top of this for me." :(

If you didn't put everything together from my big mess of a first paragraph here's a summary. I can't call the police because it will expedite my clients getting thrown out of the house. The best I can do is to try to get some sort of protections for them in place, go after him in the bankruptcy proceeding for whatever money he may have left, and only then, when all is said and done, go after him criminally. I'm also going to try to reach someone from the housing authority to see if I can get their names on a list for Section 8 housing. I know there's a waiting list, so I'd like to get their names on it sooner rather than later. That's in case they are left homeless. I talked to Doug, the guy in my office, about possibly calling this guy's lawyer and threatening him with criminal charges if he didn't make restitution. The problem is that it might make him run...

So, this mess has to carry on until Tuesday...
 
Jennifer,

I really feel for you. I understand your reluctance, but calling the police will eventually need to be done.

Since I suspect you've informed your clients by now, have you thought about letting the media know about the situation? This time of year is one of incredible giving. You might be suprised with the outpouring of monetary, emotional, and other gifts and support. By getting the media involved, the mortage companies (especially if local) might be less enthusiastic about foreclosing, and may even come up with options your clients can deal with.

Pam
 
ako Knife Lady said:
Jennifer,

I really feel for you. I understand your reluctance, but calling the police will eventually need to be done.

Since I suspect you've informed your clients by now, have you thought about letting the media know about the situation? This time of year is one of incredible giving. You might be suprised with the outpouring of monetary, emotional, and other gifts and support. By getting the media involved, the mortage companies (especially if local) might be less enthusiastic about foreclosing, and may even come up with options your clients can deal with.

Pam
Click to expand...

Good suggestion; but, are your clients ready to deal with the media circus. It may lure additional predators to them.

What is the market value of the house less the outstanding claims against the property? If she sells the house, can she pay off the mortgages and recover her $160K outlay?

n2s
 
Make sure you condemn him in his church also. Publicity may actually help the old lady. Use every method or idea possible to whack the guy and get compensation. Torture him and make him regret ever doing it.

Get the church pastor to speak to this scum and tell him to make the situation right.

I know you have the stones to do it all the way.
 
I learned more today in a few hours, then I have in months of law practice. When I left off, I mentioned that I brought another attorney in on this matter. Our meeting occurred today in my office. This is going to be lengthy but probably well worth the read.

We'll call the attorney who I brought in Bob. Bob comes into the office for our meeting with the client. I remind him that the client, we'll call her Sarah- not her real name, is not yet aware of my findings. I explained that I was concerned about her health and wanted to explain everything to her in person. Bob is a much older gentleman. He's assisted me in a few minor issues in the past, and his advice has always been helpful. I ask him if he wants me to break it to her first, and then bring him in on the conference, or if he would want to do it together. He must have thought I was a complete idiot. He told me we'd do it together and feel her out as we go along.

Part 1- Sarah arrives, we bring her into the conference room. Bob begins by introducing himself in his good old Southern manner, telling her that he's been practicing law longer than I've been breathing (43 years), etc.. He talks about his first years in practice, his first few firms, etc... The client has probably never heard of any of the firms he named. He continues talking for at least five minutes in this manner. I'm kindof understanding what he's doing, but wondering if it's not overkill. He then asks her what she thought she was getting when she entered the transaction. She gives him a simple explanation of her perspective on the transaction. He continued by asking her all of the questions that I've wondered about her personally relative to her other finances, support group, family, etc... This fills in a lot of blanks about how dire this whole situation will make her. He then talks about the deed and methods he can use to get him to sign over the deed. I'm wondering what he's talking about, what about the mortgages? She's very interested, she wants the deeds. He then slowly brings in the fact that there are two outstanding mortgages on the property. She looks shocked and is understandably shaken. Remember, the deed won't stop the mortgages, they run with the land. He's going on and on about the mortgages, I'm throwing the bankruptcy docket in front of him. Perhaps he forgot? :confused: He doesn't look down, continues on his subtle path slowly layering the information bit by bit. He finally brings up the bankruptcy. He didn't even call it bankruptcy at first. He said reorganization and slowly explained the process and the affects. Now she knows. I realize that I just watched an artist. What I would have done in a very abrupt and clumsy manner (certainly not intentionally), he accomplished in an incredibly smooth and gentle cadence. I realize that I had no idea what it means to break it to someone softly. I know that this description doesn't do this man justice.

Now it's out on the table. She's visibly upset but not crying. As she's going on and on, I interject and ask her, "Is this man still living in your area?" She replies, "Yes, he lives up the street from me. I have his phone number." I'm writing the number down. Bob says, "Let's give him a call." Now, I'm shocked. He asks if I have any objections. Yeah right, now I'm intrigued. :) He takes out his cell phone and puts it on speaker phone. Poor Sarah didn't understand that she didn't have to pick up the phone to ask for him. The jerk answers. Bob introduces himself and provides him with a short background. He explains how we came to meet Sarah. He tells Jerk that he's been practicing law for 43 years which is long enough for him to know that there are two sides to every story. He asked him if he wanted to explain his side of it before Bob decides what he's going to do next. Jerk agrees. Bob tells him that we can either handle it right then over the telephone, or we could do it face to face. Jerk replies that he would prefer to meet face to face. He then tells Bob that he would be available at the end of next week. He's going away tomorrow, blah, blah, blah. I grab Bob's arm and say, "What about today? I'm available. Are you?" Bob asks Jerk how long it would take to get to our office. 45 minutes. Bob explains to Jerk that he really needs to come in as soon as possible. He tells him that he expects to see him in our office in 45 minutes. Bob then breaks out into a very succint, very powerful, explanation of the facts as he knew them. His voice got increasingly stronger and angrier as he continued. My adrenaline is pumping. The man says he's on his way over...

Bob's eating lunch, and I'm thanking him for allowing me to watch everything. I tell him he's an artist. Hell, I'm gushing. :embarrassed:
 
Part 2- Jerk arrives at our office. Sarah comes back with her nephew. She asks if he can join us saying that she felt she needed someone to be there for her. I agree, Bob agrees. We sit down in the conference room. Jerk and Scum, his wife, are sitting at the far side of the table from Bob. Bob thanks them for coming in so quickly. He recounts a bit of Sarah's situation and tells him that he wants to give him an opportunity to straighten out any misunderstandings. (Misunderstandings, yeah right. :rolleyes: ). Bob tells him that he wants him to begin by telling us what happened to the money. This JERK goes into this lengthy, nebulous dialogue about the situation as he knows it. All along he's waiving his arms around like he's waving in a jet liner for landing. I'm trying not to throw up or roll my eyes. He explains how he wanted to apply the $165,000.00 to pay off the mortgages, but his bankruptcy attorney told him that the bankruptcy court frowns on large, lump sum payments. He explains how he wanted to do everything he can to protect dear Sarah. He would never hurt her. He's as honest as the day is long. He explains that in an effort to protect dear Sarah, since he cannot pay off the mortgages, he concocts plan 2 which involves "sneaking" larger, $10,000.00 payments into his regular payments to the bankruptcy trustee. I know that the trustee has only received one large payment of that sort. But he goes on and on about how slick he is sneaking in the extra money all in an effort to pay off the mortgages and get Sarah clear title. :rolleyes: He takes 20 minutes to explain his "thoughtful" plan to protect Sarah's interests. Finally he closes out and tells Bob that he still has a large amount of Sarah's money. I'm feeling so hopeful at that moment. Anyhow, Bob asks him how much. Jerk responds, "about $80,000.00." Bob explains to Jerk that he's going to expect him to place the $80,000.00 into a secure account, with our firm, where he won't have any access to it until we can straighten things out. Bob tells him that this is reasonable. Jerk recants by saying that some of the $80,000.00 is their private money and some of it is Sarah's money. Bob responds by telling him that he was finding a bit of a comfort zone when Jerk said, $80,000.00. Now that Jerk is moving away from the $80,000.00, Bob wasn't so comfortable. Bob told Jerk that he trusted that Jerk would put in an amount that was very near his comfort zone. The threat was always there, Bob never had to say it. Jerk agreed. Bob told him that he was going to make them sign an assignment of interest, or some other document, assigning Jerk's rights to any homeowner's insurance proceeds in the event of a fire. Jerk and Scum agree. Bob then explains that he's going to be talking to the bankruptcy trustee and Bob's attorney over the next few days. He schedules Jerk and Scum to come back next Tuesday. They agree. Scum asks for a moment to talk. She goes on and on about how she didn't ever want any of this to happen. She is an honest woman. They are honest people. Sarah's like family. They will do everything they can to fix this matter and help Sarah.

Obviously, we don't have the money yet. But, the threat of the man going to jail is hopefully enough to get it in the trust. Jerk agreed to bring it. We'll see. It's not the full $165,000.00. But, it's a start. It's better than leaving Sarah with nothing. Bob is also going to begin tightening the noose with the bankruptcy trustee. We're going after the money first, then we'll go from there. ;) If we put him in jail first, she would get thrown out of her house, and we wouldn't see any of the money. Nothing is going to be fool proof, but hopefully we can get Sarah some restitution. Sarah's nephew didn't say anything during the entire meeting until the very end. He said, "I can't believe that I just sat in there and listened to all of that. I've never heard of anything like this. He took advantage of my auntie because of her age." Bob replied, "He's a con artist, I've dealt with his kind before." That sums it up. We'll see... Any prayers are welcome.
 
You want prayers? I'll give you prayers.

I pray that "Sarah" gets her money back, and has a secure future.

I pray that "Jerk" has no ability to further prey on the elderly and defenseless.

I pray that Jsmatos and "Bob" have their kindness repaid a thousandfold.
 
Well worth the long post. Hope this turns out alright. Sounds like you got a good experienced attorney there.
 
Prayers and hugs for you and "Sarah." I hope things work out in the end, and I hope that worthless POS goes to jail for this. You and "Bob" are great people for doing this. Thankfully, even though we have scum like this in the world, there are great people like you to work against them. I think you can pull this one off, you've obviously got your heart in it, and "Bob" has plenty of knowledge and experience it seems.

As said earlier, talk with the church. Generally there will be some very supportive people there, and Sarah could probably use all the support she can get.
 
Thanks guys.

I'm just entering into my second year of practice. I am actually very proud of how far and fast I've come along thus far. I already get regular referrals and repeat clients. But I do know when I'm in above my head. There are too many complexities to this case for a newbie like myself. I wanted Sarah to get the best representation I could find. Bob charged Sarah a very minimal amount for his services today. He told me he'd split it with me. Can you imagine? :eek: I told him to keep it, I didn't want any of it. I honestly didn't really do anything anyway, and I don't want any of her money. Truly, nothing I did was noteworthy. All I can say is that I hope that Bob's talent is mostly attributable to years of practice. Perhaps, one day I'll be able to help someone like Sarah on my own. Dare I wish that someday I might have a bit of the talent that Bob displayed today. I wish you could have seen him, he was truly remarkable.

As an aside, he told me that he mentored many of the BIG lawyers in our area. He named some of them. They're giants, very impressive. He laughed and said that all of his students became more successful than him. I'm not sure that it really matters when you have talent like his. Being truly spectacular at your chosen field, that has to be a wonderful feeling.
 
Have there been any casualty loss deduction considerations for tax purposes. Due to this fraud, it's possible she may take a deduction this year for her loss.

Eventhough she may end up with an NOL, she could carry it back 2 and forward up to 20 years to help offset taxable earnings.
 
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