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Testing Knives
- Thread starter Silent01
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Yeah was going to say I thought I recalled that channel not having the best reputation but if they are going to make a claim of Brand X claims to use Super Omega Steel but we found it is Bland Steel A I would expect some real science done to determine this. I might check out the video but I keep my skepticism.
Lesknife
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Yeah I think this is the same info that was found to have used invalid testing methods and the calibration was off. There are some who claim to be experts but really aren’t experts. Knife performance is the best indication of heat treatment imo.
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And how would you go about doing that homework? By reading the internet and taking the word of people on forums you don't know? And who or what has informed their opinions?
Buying a rockwell tester? Asking for a certificate of proof and authenticity from the vendor?
Are you going to send each of the knives you purchase out for independent analysis? What about verifying the calibration of the tester's rig? Who's testing the testers?
And on and on. At some point it will ultimately come down to faith. And in some cases, I wouldn't buy a knife from certain individuals or companies regardless of whether their current offerings were spot on with the specs.
If the knife performs as expected, and as others of its type (steel, profile, edge thickness etc) have in the past, that's about as good as it's going to get.
So, good luck with the homework. Unfortunately, my dog ate mine and now I'm just trying to find my way in the dark.
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I started to watch the video almost every brand was some low end Chinese brand and at least one was an outright clone and was mentioned on the first knife it was purchased from a known counterfeit retailer based in China. My expectations are not good as even if the brand is or has gone legit no telling what you are getting from that vendor in the first place. So back to poor methodology though some of the brands he had I am not sure you will find from a reputable vendor but in that case I don't think those knives are worth testing or belong in a category all their own.
I concur with some of the points you bring to the table, it’s the internet and fact and fiction are blurry
I have bought some really expensive knives that are junk and some
Cheap cheap stuff that was superior in steel or Hrc and edge retention
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I test my blades by first whittling a stick of seasoned pine. Then I hammer them through an anvil or a chunk of railroad track. If they are still shaving sharp after that, they're acceptable.
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Problem is, it's so difficult to find an anvil or section of track that measures up to the old standards anymore, am I right?
I mean when my father in law was still alive, he worked for the railroad repairing and laying track, so I knew I could get the good stuff. On the other hand, he may not have forgiven me for marrying his daughter. So there's that...
unwisefool
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Such as?
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Even if there was a mistake once upon a time, I'm so glad that LTK is doing this. There are a ton of upstart or obscure brands selling knives. Unfortunately, there are bad actors in the marketplace. So when someone sees a design they like, how are they to know if the steel stamp can be trusted?
Coincidentally, I discovered Petrified Fish because of exactly this kind of issue. One of their older knives in 8Cr13Mov had been sold through a rebrander that falsely stamped D2 on the blade. I didn't believe the people raving about it on another forum it so I bought one to test via cutting and sharpening. While it fell short of what I expected of D2, it was actually a really well-made knife. So I tried to track down the design on the global market only to find the same pattern under lots of brands. Months later, Petrified Fish launched their own products and there it was with an accurate 8Cr13Mov steel stamp. Since then, I've had several of their D2 knives and performance is top of the curve for Chinese D2.
I eventually sent my PF818 over to Outpost 76 for more controlled cut testing. The results echoed my own experiences. While I don't love Chinese D2, it's nice to see it done well. They also do well with 12C27. Their PF719 combines a gentlemanly aesthetic with wood scales and a drop-shut action on bearings. They've announced that they'll be using more Sandvik steels as the year progresses so this is a company to watch.
Coincidentally, I discovered Petrified Fish because of exactly this kind of issue. One of their older knives in 8Cr13Mov had been sold through a rebrander that falsely stamped D2 on the blade. I didn't believe the people raving about it on another forum it so I bought one to test via cutting and sharpening. While it fell short of what I expected of D2, it was actually a really well-made knife. So I tried to track down the design on the global market only to find the same pattern under lots of brands. Months later, Petrified Fish launched their own products and there it was with an accurate 8Cr13Mov steel stamp. Since then, I've had several of their D2 knives and performance is top of the curve for Chinese D2.
I eventually sent my PF818 over to Outpost 76 for more controlled cut testing. The results echoed my own experiences. While I don't love Chinese D2, it's nice to see it done well. They also do well with 12C27. Their PF719 combines a gentlemanly aesthetic with wood scales and a drop-shut action on bearings. They've announced that they'll be using more Sandvik steels as the year progresses so this is a company to watch.
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It's really a shame that threads like this continue to attract China-bashing. Yes, counterfeiting is a horrible atrocity. False steel stamps are obviously terrible. Does anyone dispute that? It's a real problem and yes, we do see a lot of it coming out of China.
However, there are definitely decent Chinese companies in existence, staffed by honest and talented Chinese people, who make really nice knives at competitive prices. This is fact. Aside from owning a bunch of those knives, I've communicated and dealt with some of these companies directly. Beyond knives, I've also had very good experiences with Chinese companies making flashlights. I recently got a customized order from Jaxman at no extra charge and it is fantastic.
It's hard to tell how much of this hate is raw anti-Chinese sentiment and how much is misguided economic nationalism. I say "misguided" because it's necessary to understand how the current market situation developed before assigning blame. How long did anyone think American or other companies could outsource their production to China before the Chinese would learn to make such products on their own? How about the very real and cumulative effects of our own government policies in shaping the current market situation?
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Gotta love that because of the lionsteel shuffler incident with Rockwell hardness being incorrectly or inconsistently measured, so many are quick to completely throw out that testing group's findings.
Nevermind that the rest of their results seem in line with expectations (nobody questions 69 HRC Maxamet data or 59 HRC M390), and that the cut testing frequently demonstrates that a knife can hit hardness targets and still not hold an edge, which is really the big problem they are demonstrating with some production knife companies.
Nevermind that the rest of their results seem in line with expectations (nobody questions 69 HRC Maxamet data or 59 HRC M390), and that the cut testing frequently demonstrates that a knife can hit hardness targets and still not hold an edge, which is really the big problem they are demonstrating with some production knife companies.
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