Testing W2 Hardness Quenched with Parks 50 and 9% Brine Solution.

Jeff the Millwright

Jeff the Millwright

Joined
Sep 29, 2015
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229
My first photo shows Houghto-Quench® K beside Parks 50 and I find it surprising that two oils that are supposed to have the same quenching characteristics look so different. I’m not using Houghto-Quench® K in this test but I thought someone may find that interesting so I included a photo.

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Here are my test pieces after quenching and I ground off the layer of scale and I put them here to show where I did my hardness tests. Because I always grip with my needle nose pliers on the end with the punch marks I take a reading in the dead center and then a second one halfway between that and the end that doesn’t get gripped. After this photo I ground off another .007” and retested to get through the decarb layer.

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The next two photos show I heated to 1475 Fahrenheit and then soaked the two pieces for 10 minutes and they were in the oven during ramp-up in the next photo shows the temperature of the quenchant.

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I use 95°F because of these recommendations by Stacy. I actually tried to use 90F but the temp crept up on me but I don't see it making a difference.

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Here are the containers being heated holding Parks 50 and Brine. This was pretty much all the Parks 50 I was sent so this is the volume that had to be used. I also did agitate both samples.

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And here are the results:

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Being told my conclusions previously are overreaching I will be cautious to only state what is strictly proven here. It looks to me like Parks 50 hardens this piece of W-2 almost as well as Brine and if you look at the numbers at the top of my test results those are the old figures for W-2 in Houghto-Quench® K which are below 50. I was actually surprised that agitating the Brine quench didn't give a higher hardness but instead is pretty close to the value when tested without agitation.

Personally if I were hardening W-2 or even 1095 I would use Parks 50 and wouldn’t go near Houghto-Quench® K. Although Houghto-Quench® K hardened 1095 to 66 in one of my tests it did have a soft spot in the center and the fact it won’t do W-2 (or at least the piece I have) I would feel much safer with Parks for both these steels. I mean why take a chance when you know one will definitely do the job and the other seems iffy on one and terrible on the other? I don’t expect others to agree with my conclusions but use the evidence for your own.

Thanks again to kuraki for sending me the Parks 50 to make this test possible who was such a gentleman he wouldn’t even allow me to pay for the shipping. Without his generosity I would not know what the problem was and if I should order some Parks 50 or not so it really bailed me out.
 
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I don’t know exactly if .007” is enough and I suspect maybe if I went to .020” like I have in the past the numbers may improve a little but at this point I am happy with those numbers and honestly I can’t tell you how much time I have spent in the last week and a half grinding little pieces of steel. I think those numbers tell me Parks 50 is almost as good as Brine and that’s all I was really concerned about; if I can get a little higher numbers by going deeper right now it doesn’t really matter to me even though I might do that over the next couple days.

I use my 2 x 72 belt grinder at a very slow speed with light pressure and hold the pieces with my fingers making sure the pieces don’t get hot and dunking constantly in water so I really don’t think they are being heated too much.
 
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Thanks for posting your results - and it's confirmed your earlier thoughts.

Ken H>
 
Thank you for going to all this work and sharing your data Jeff.
 
Don Hanson III said:
What I figured. I've not found any oil as fast as Park's 50 & W2 needs a very fast quench. Good test!
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Parks was prohibitively expensive for me to get in Canada. I ended up with Maxim DT-48, the last 5 gallons a local supplier had. It's a 6-7 second oil iirc. I get full hardness with W2.
 
Jeff, try 1460 for the W2. You might get 1 or 2 points better. When I tested W2 a couple years ago, I found 1460 the sweet spot. Even 10f up or down decreased consistency, and 20f either way I started losing max Rc#s. This is assuming your kiln is calibrated exactly as mine is. It might be out a bit for any number of reasons.
 
Willie71 said:
Jeff, try 1460 for the W2. You might get 1 or 2 points better. When I tested W2 a couple years ago, I found 1460 the sweet spot. Even 10f up or down decreased consistency, and 20f either way I started losing max Rc#s. This is assuming your kiln is calibrated exactly as mine is. It might be out a bit for any number of reasons.
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Glad to share P. Brewster and kuraki and again kuraki thanks for the Parks 50.

And thanks for the advice on my temps Willie71. Kentucky actually suggested the same thing to me to increase the effect of my hamon so it makes sense that it would also increase my hardness. And I think my furnace is pretty accurate to within 10°F or less because I did the salt melt test but someday I really should do some tests on temperature with W-2 to find the exact sweet spot on my oven.
 
Jeff the Millwright said:
Glad to share P. Brewster and kuraki and again kuraki thanks for the Parks 50.

And thanks for the advice on my temps Willie71. Kentucky actually suggested the same thing to me to increase the effect of my hamon so it makes sense that it would also increase my hardness. And I think my furnace is pretty accurate to within 10°F or less because I did the salt melt test but someday I really should do some tests on temperature with W-2 to find the exact sweet spot on my oven.
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I wasn't questioning your kiln, just that mine might not be calibrated the same as yours. :thumbup: I just know my sweet spot in my shop with my quenchant and kiln.
 
butcher_block said:
what size blade did you quench in a Qt of quenchant. we need a mass ratio for science
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We have been down the rabbit hole about quench test volume in my last test thread so all I will say is no I have never quenched a knife in a quart but the test pieces I used here are 1 inch by one half of an inch and .207” thick so I believe the volume is adequate to accommodate them and if others disagree I will have to live with that as I was given the quart of Parks 50 for this test so that is all I could use.
 
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Jeff I took the liberty of compiling all your results. I tried to standardize your thicknesses based on your original thicknesses since you switched to depth of removal halfway through.

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Thank you kuraki; you did quite the admirable job of neatly cataloging all my results. That makes things much more clear and accessible. Good job Sir!

Though I think you have my first test with W2 when in fact it was with 1095 and you have my second run with 1095 when in fact it was with W2. Actually at this point I have done so many tests seeing them all together I am confused which is which. I know my first test was with 1095 not W2 but maybe you just didn't post the first one?

All I know is I am getting 5 gallons of Parks 50, lol....:)
 
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Jeff the Millwright said:
Thank you kuraki; you did quite the admirable job of neatly cataloging all my results. That makes things much more clear and accessible. Good job Sir!

Though I think you have my first test with W2 when in fact it was with 1095 and you have my second run with 1095 when in fact it was with W2. Actually at this point I have done so many tests seeing them all together I am confused which is which. I know my first test was with 1095 not W2 but maybe you just didn't post the first one?

All I know is I am getting 5 gallons of Parks 50, lol....:)
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Go with the parks 50 if you can get it at a reasonable price. From personal experience, DT-48 works too. If you come across it at a reasonable price, don't hesitate.
 
Willie71 said:
Go with the parks 50 if you can get it at a reasonable price. From personal experience, DT-48 works too. If you come across it at a reasonable price, don't hesitate.
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Thank you Willie I think I will get the Parks 50. I talked to the really nice lady from Texas who sends it out and people were right she is super accommodating. The Parks is a little under 100 and she told me shipping would be 100 so that's about 260 Canadian and then whatever the brokerage fee would be so I think I can get 5 gallons for under 350 Canadian.

It's a lot of money considering I have already wasted 265 on Houghto K but I really want to make the best knife I can so I want to have the proper quenchant and I did look for DT – 48 but I couldn't find it anywhere in Canada; I think you got pretty lucky.
 
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