Texas Knife Laws

batosai117 said:
From my personal take on this and from fellow officers that I work with, you will get a different answer every time, but my answer is probably more informed since I am a knife enthusiast :D

Knife restriction laws are only really enforced if a crime has been committed and an "illegal" blade is found on the subject and is given that added charge. No one I know has ever charged anyone to date with a weapon charge for a knife - gun yes, but knife no. The knife is simply confiscated if it's illegal to own and the person sent on their merry way. I haven't confiscated anything yet because like the trooper example above, if they aren't a threat to me then they are OK in my book to carry whatever they want.

I did have to educate a lot of my fellow Deputies on the DIFFERENCE between spring assist and full automatic. One of the guys almost picked up a SOG Flash II black coated combo edge from a walking subject that was in a problem area in the middle of the night. The guy was just walking home late from a friends house and knew the address off hand and his ID showed his home was just around the corner. He was patted down prior to finding this out by another deputy and the knife was discovered. The other deputy flicked it open and of course the spring assist kicked in. He spewed out that it was an illegal knife and preached on his soapbox about how the guy could get in trouble for owning it. The subject readily offered to give up the knife and that he had no idea and did not want to get in trouble. I pulled my friend aside and explained to him briefly that it was a spring assist knife and not an automatic. I finished the contact with the subject, handed him his knife back and said "Nice Flash II." He looked confused and said, "Thank you, but it's a SOG not a Flash II, I picked it up at Lowes so I thought it was legal?" I told him the brand is SOG and the knife model is a Flash II. I also advised him that it was legal and that spring assist was a whole other thing from automatic. He walked home and I felt better for saving a fellow knife enthusiast from losing a $50 knife to my misunderstanding friend :)

If you stay under the radar you have nothing to worry about, J.
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The problem with "staying under the radar" is that an emergency event can suddenly put an individual very much "on" the radar, especially if one uses something like an illegal knife in an incident that is not so clearly a self-defense situation. As I prepare to retire from police work, and will therefore will no longer be exempt from Section 46 of the Texas Penal Code, my Strider Airwings and HS Karambits will no longer be OK for general daily carry. I stopped the carry of my HS Karambits some time ago, anyway, after finding better-fitting karambits that coincidentally have single-edged blades, but sometimes still like to carry an Airwing, which has a sharpened clip.

Well, I have been looking at some Spyderco fixed-blade knifes, measuring a bit less than 5.5", and admired the Bradley Bowie and the Temperance 2. As the recent bill, in the Texas legislature, that would have removed the word "Bowie" from the language describing illegal knives, was not passed, the decision is easy; I will be ordering a Temperance 2 for the times I want to carry a fixed blade while going about my daily business in public. The Temperance 2 not only has no reference to "Bowie" in its name, but the leaf-styled blade cannot be described as Bowie-like. (I own an original Temperance, and like the blade design, anyway; the Temperence 2 looks like it has a much better handle.)

I am not going to give any over-zealous prosecutor the opportunity to ruin my "honorably retired" status by carrying any knife that can be alleged to be illegal. (This point in time is NOT a good time for any active or retired police officer to expect favorable treatment from any prosecutor!)
 
Rex, I think that what you need to do is order both... one to be able to use NOW and one for when we get the laws changed next session. :D You know, positive thinking and preparation. :D:D
 
Texas and "their" laws. I live in Texas but for that matter, throughout this nation laws are all screwed up because of outside influences, i.e., corporations and other corrupt realities. For example "life insurance" is suppose to be insurance for one's life? You die and your loved ones get paid. That in itself defines it as death insurance. With that, I never relied on anyone, not cops or any other entity influenced or controlled by special interest groups when it comes to protecting myself or my family thus, I will carry what I see fit to carry. I have my special training to rely on and a knife handy -- just in case -- for most all weaponry in close quarters and have an awesome old axe handle for none confined areas. I also have a gun for wannabe gunslingers. :) Good people should not allow others to tell them how or when one can be prepared to defend themselves and their families.
 
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I have recently begun carrying a fixed blade for offhand defensive use along with my licensed concealed carry. I have an Izula with G10 scales and it carries nicely both horizontally in front and vertically on the belt using the included sheath with a teklock.

That said, I'm considering something larger like an ESEE 4. I'm a big guy, not too worried about ability to conceal and I'll spend the money on a custom kydex sheath if need be.

I'm not a bushcrafter, I want the knife for defensive or general utility use. So, this brings me to my question: does the State of Texas consider the ESEE 4 CP (Clip Point), which has a sharpened swedge down almost half the length of the blade on the spine side consider that to be a "double edged knife" and therefore generally "illegal" for carry? I mean, I have a Gerber M1 from my military days and I know I can't carry that because it is a double edge on the full length and is a true dagger.

I also wonder if some clip points are okay (i.e. not sharpened on the top spine side) or if they are all automatically thrown into the nebulous "bowie knife" category.

Thanks for reading.
 
Case law (some trial up in the panhandle, IIRC) says that if a blade is sharpened as little as 1/2" on the spine side, it is a dagger, therefore, illegal to carry in public in Texas.

I have several knives that I pass on carrying "out in the real world" because they have a small (1-1/2" or less) sharpened swedge.

Hopefully, this next legislative session, KnifeRights will succeed in getting the last archaicisms out of Texas knife law and get the "illegal knife" definition language removed.

Last session, their bill got all the way to the Senate calendar and shortly before it was to be voted on, Senator Witless, I mean Whitmore, out of Houston, got it jerked from the calendar over a pissing contest with the House sponsor over an entirely different bill.

A minor setback for this next session, one of the Representatives on the House committee that the bill will pass through, was defeated in the Republican primary. I happened to get a chance to speak with her about the bill and she was all for the bill when it came through this next session. Hopefully, her replacement on the committee will be amenable to it.

ETA:: The BK16 is only 0.2 inches longer than the ESEE 4 and is a sweet GP knife. The Kabar TDIs are designed for CQD and are frequently carried by LEOs for your stated purpose.
 
While TPC 46.02 outlaws the carrying of various kinds of knives and has length restrictions, TPC 46.15 seems to exempt certain people from those restrictions. One of the exempt categories is the CHL holder. You have to read through the section carefully, but it seems pretty straightforward. Perhaps it's up to whoever the judge happens to be.
 
yipchoy said:
While TPC 46.02 outlaws the carrying of various kinds of knives and has length restrictions, TPC 46.15 seems to exempt certain people from those restrictions. One of the exempt categories is the CHL holder. You have to read through the section carefully, but it seems pretty straightforward. Perhaps it's up to whoever the judge happens to be.
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First, there is not yet a court case on this, so it is still up in the air. From a straight forward reading of the 2 sections of penal code, you are right. Under the one code, you can't carry an illegal knife. By the other, it essentially says, paraphrased significantly, the illegal knife section (actually the whole illegal weapons section itself) is void if one holds a valid CHL AND are legally packing the type of handgun for which the license was issued. Period.

However, CHL instructors stress the point that so many DAs and LEOs say "That ain't so, because that's not what the lawmakers meant." Well, what the lawmakers meant is, practically speaking again, what ever they actually wrote. No armchair quarterbacking and saying that it really means what WE (the DAs and LEOs) interpret it to be.

The problem is no one really wants to be THE TEST CASE. It would be expensive, and a crap shoot as to the outcome of the trial. There was almost a test case 2 legislative sessions ago as documented here::

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...l-Charges-Test-Case?highlight=capitol+handgun

In the end, the DA dropped all charges because he decided NOT to try to pursue prosecution, probably because he didn't want the political fallout if/when he lost.

Edit to add:: The easy fix will be to eliminate the category of "illegal knife" from the Texas Penal Code and just make what you do with whatever you are carrying be what counts. The other fix would be to put straight forward language into the TPC specifically stating that having a valid CHL trumps the "illegal knife" or "illegal weapons" section. Even though what is there currently already says that. It is just that DAs and LEOs don't want to believe it. I have nothing against DAs or LEOs. I know a bunch. I work with them (at least the LEOs) frequently. I just personally think in this case/situation they have their heads up their asses.
 
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A question somewhat along the same lines.

Would a folder with an UNSHARPENED swedge be construed as a dagger?

Some folders have some really pointy top swedges like Al Mar Talon blades and some Benchmades. They are decidedly unsharp though and you'd be hard pressed to cut anything with it. Matter of fact since the swedge points outward when the knife is folded, you have some serious cuts to open it if the swedge were sharpened.
 
I was in Texas and asked a cop about that. He told me that it depends on the cop, but he wouldn't do anything about it unless you were using it to commit a crime.
 
Calling it now, the universal repeal of prohibited weapons as it applies to knives bill will be refiled next session...It very nearly passed last time, got through the House and would have passed the Senate but Douchemire pigeon holed it and the session ended. With the trend going the way it as in terms of anything weapon related in the state legislature (and in many other states too), I see a high chance a similar bill will be able to pass if/when filed next session. Gov Abbott's signature would not be an issue, getting the bill to his desk is the real challenge.

It is amusing to see the odd coalition that typically supports repealing weapon restrictions, the ban on autos was mainly supported by white Republicans and minority urban Democrats. The GOP support is in opposition to any limitation of the 2A in general and the urban Dems supported it because they don't want as many of their constituents getting arrested...politics can breed strange bedfellows!
 
Waxingmoon said:
"He told me that it depends on the cop," That's really frustrating to read.
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In Practice it is truth I was getting so food before a Civil War Reenactment a few years ago when a fresh from the academy LEO got up and Came over to ask about it after a few minutes his Traing Sergeant came over and made him take his seat. The Sgt told me the new officer didn't know that
reanactors were except under State law. My Bowie is well over 12 inches and razor sharp.
 
Part of the reason for that is that relatively few LEOs ever have the opportunity to work with re-enactors, parade participants, etc to be exposed to the exception to the law. It's mentioned only in passing in the Academies when they go over the laws in class.
 
Can anyone tell me if Minute Maid Park's ban on knives is legal? The stadium is owned by the Harris County Houston Sports Authority, which by their own description "is a government agency that maintains and oversees the bond debt service on the professional sports stadiums, as well as assists with the sports marketing for the destination." My unprofessional interpretation of the law is that they have no right to ban knives (other than "illegal knives" as defined in the Penal Code).
 
jimmyconway32 said:
Can anyone tell me if Minute Maid Park's ban on knives is legal? The stadium is owned by the Harris County Houston Sports Authority, which by their own description "is a government agency that maintains and oversees the bond debt service on the professional sports stadiums, as well as assists with the sports marketing for the destination." My unprofessional interpretation of the law is that they have no right to ban knives (other than "illegal knives" as defined in the Penal Code).
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There is no part of US law that prevents venues from having tighter restrictions on weapons than those permitted by the jurisdiction, regardless of whether the entity that owns the venue is government or private. For example, many states do not have a specific statutory prohibition on weapons in court houses. Court houses are government owned, but they absolutely have the right not to allow knives in. Same goes for public schools: Most states do not actually have law banning knives from schools, but the school is still allowed to ban them even if it's a public school. The only way to prevent this is if there is a specific law over-riding the venue's ability to place such restrictions. These include some states having laws that prevent "gun free zones" without meeting certain criteria, as well as the federal law permitting law enforcement to always have access to their weapon with few exceptions.
 
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