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Texas Trooper Needed a Knife!
- Thread starter bruce
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dogboye
Gold Member
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It is remarkably easy to puncture a properly inflated tire with a good sharp knife. Or even a not-so-sharp knife. The knife is definitely a better choice than a bullet.
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"Absolute safety is for those who don't have the balls to live in the real world."
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- Nov 8, 1998
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And, Rockspyder....wanna share the data that goes with your definitive assessment ?
I mean, you say the knife is "definitely" better than a bullet. Seems you know something, here.
My problem was not a matter of PENETRATION....just a healthy fear of being caught holding the handle of a knife which is rotating at a huge rate of knots as the tyre makes black marks on the pavement. At least, the LEO wouldn't have to fight a rapidly rotating handgun.
Tell us.
AFTER ALL< YOU DID QUOTE ME IN HEAVYWEIGHT CAPITALS
[This message has been edited by brian w edginton (edited 02-07-2000).]
I mean, you say the knife is "definitely" better than a bullet. Seems you know something, here.
My problem was not a matter of PENETRATION....just a healthy fear of being caught holding the handle of a knife which is rotating at a huge rate of knots as the tyre makes black marks on the pavement. At least, the LEO wouldn't have to fight a rapidly rotating handgun.
Tell us.
AFTER ALL< YOU DID QUOTE ME IN HEAVYWEIGHT CAPITALS
[This message has been edited by brian w edginton (edited 02-07-2000).]
dogboye
Gold Member
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Sorry about the heavyweight caps, that's just the way the forums do it when you click that-there far right button above the post.
Regarding the ... data... two sources, one read, one personal. I have read in a couple of places that a bullet will not deflate a tire like you see on TV. On the contrary, in general, the tire will be deflated similarly to when it is punctured by a nail or screw. That is, unless you manage to hit and penetrate the steel or alloy wheel.
However, I can tell you from personal experience (and don't get the wrong idea that I was doing something illegal), a tire punctured by a knife blade will completely deflate in about 8 to 15 seconds. Add to that the litigious society in which I live (didn't notice where you live, and I can't look now while I'm in the reply page) and the dangers of a wild, stray bullet that may or may not have impacted pavement... I'd go for the knife, or nothing at all. Certainly not the bullet.
Oh, one final thing... the scenario did not say anything about the tires spinning, just that the drunk was trying to run away. Although, spinning tires are a reasonable assumption, I guess. Actually, I find it more surprising that the officers didn't just trip the guy if he was trying to run...
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"Absolute safety is for those who don't have the balls to live in the real world."
[This message has been edited by rockspyder (edited 02-08-2000).]
Regarding the ... data... two sources, one read, one personal. I have read in a couple of places that a bullet will not deflate a tire like you see on TV. On the contrary, in general, the tire will be deflated similarly to when it is punctured by a nail or screw. That is, unless you manage to hit and penetrate the steel or alloy wheel.
However, I can tell you from personal experience (and don't get the wrong idea that I was doing something illegal), a tire punctured by a knife blade will completely deflate in about 8 to 15 seconds. Add to that the litigious society in which I live (didn't notice where you live, and I can't look now while I'm in the reply page) and the dangers of a wild, stray bullet that may or may not have impacted pavement... I'd go for the knife, or nothing at all. Certainly not the bullet.
Oh, one final thing... the scenario did not say anything about the tires spinning, just that the drunk was trying to run away. Although, spinning tires are a reasonable assumption, I guess. Actually, I find it more surprising that the officers didn't just trip the guy if he was trying to run...
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"Absolute safety is for those who don't have the balls to live in the real world."
[This message has been edited by rockspyder (edited 02-08-2000).]
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
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For whatever it's worth, pistol bullets usually bounce off tires without effect -- in real life, that is; of course in television-land the laws of nature are different.... People who can't afford $300 for a vest have been known to make a "New York vest" out of steel-belted radial tires. A bit conspicuous, I'm afraid, but it works....
By the way, car windshields are very resistant to pistol bullets these days, too, and so are television picture tubes.
I don't understand how you could stop a drunk from running away by stabbing his tire very clearly, either, but there are a lot of things in this world I don't understand....
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-Cougar Allen :{)
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This post is not merely the author's opinions; it is the trrrrrruth. This post is intended to cause dissension and unrest and upset people, and ultimately drive them mad. Please do not misinterpret my intentions in posting this.
By the way, car windshields are very resistant to pistol bullets these days, too, and so are television picture tubes.
I don't understand how you could stop a drunk from running away by stabbing his tire very clearly, either, but there are a lot of things in this world I don't understand....
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-Cougar Allen :{)
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This post is not merely the author's opinions; it is the trrrrrruth. This post is intended to cause dissension and unrest and upset people, and ultimately drive them mad. Please do not misinterpret my intentions in posting this.
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I know that my father (LEO from way back when, and still going) has said that:
1. tires are rarely punctured by bullets
2. any time an officer fires his/her weapon, there are several forms to fill out, even if it is something as innocuous as shooting an animal that has been struck by a car, so they tend to be wary of firing unnecessarily (and get the rookies to handle wildlife).
--JB
1. tires are rarely punctured by bullets
2. any time an officer fires his/her weapon, there are several forms to fill out, even if it is something as innocuous as shooting an animal that has been struck by a car, so they tend to be wary of firing unnecessarily (and get the rookies to handle wildlife).
--JB
- Joined
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Well, may have been stupid, but.... I have shot a few auto tires with 9mm's and a .357 magnum - only one out of many shots actually deflated the tire by hitting near the point it beads to the rim, most shots bounced dangerously off. I have also punctured a few tires with knives, all of which deflated very, very quickly with a quick stab. Even the soft blade of a stilleto rips into the sidewall like butter. By the way, I will never shoot at a tire again with anything less than a centerfire rifle and recommend the same to others.
David
David
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I can say from first hand experience that a .45 ACP 185 grain JHP fired from a Colt Gov't Model will, in fact, puncture and rapidly deflate a tire. As best I can tell the bullet traveled through the sidewall and out of the tire, either through the tread or through the other sidewall. I've still got what's left of my slug around here somewhere.
It will not, however, pursuade the drunk driver to stop the car. A metal wheel without a rubber tire wrapped around it makes an neat rooster tail of sparks at 2AM!
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Frank Norman
[This message has been edited by Smooth Bone (edited 02-08-2000).]
It will not, however, pursuade the drunk driver to stop the car. A metal wheel without a rubber tire wrapped around it makes an neat rooster tail of sparks at 2AM!
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Frank Norman
[This message has been edited by Smooth Bone (edited 02-08-2000).]
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Ok! Ok!......I'm convinced that a knife is better than a bullet for tyre deflation.
But, I would love to have seen this bloke flapping in the breeze with a death grip on a knife imbedded in a tyre as the drunk driver accelerated down the road.
I mean, if the car wasn't about to take off, why the urgency to deflate a tyre ?
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BrianWE
Believe me....being this old and having to live with all this experience is not the picnic I thought it was going to be.
But, I would love to have seen this bloke flapping in the breeze with a death grip on a knife imbedded in a tyre as the drunk driver accelerated down the road.
I mean, if the car wasn't about to take off, why the urgency to deflate a tyre ?
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BrianWE
Believe me....being this old and having to live with all this experience is not the picnic I thought it was going to be.
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I'm sure I saw a story about this that was a canidate for the Darwin Awards. The story was basically about a guy that tried to use his knife to stab a tire. The knife didn't puncture the tire, it bounced back and hit him in the throat, killing him.
The Darwin Awards are given to people that that most improve humanity by removing their genes from the gene pool. In other words, people that kill themselves in very stupid ways.
Unfortunately, I can't find a link to the tire story. If you search Darwin Award sites for the word "knife" though, you find some pretty funny stuff. Here's another short, stupid knife story:
"MOSCOW, RUSSIA - A drunk security man asked a colleague at the Moscow bank they were guarding to stab his bullet-proof vest to see if it would protect him against a knife attack. It didn't, and the 25-year-old guard died of a heart wound."
The Darwin Awards are given to people that that most improve humanity by removing their genes from the gene pool. In other words, people that kill themselves in very stupid ways.
Unfortunately, I can't find a link to the tire story. If you search Darwin Award sites for the word "knife" though, you find some pretty funny stuff. Here's another short, stupid knife story:
"MOSCOW, RUSSIA - A drunk security man asked a colleague at the Moscow bank they were guarding to stab his bullet-proof vest to see if it would protect him against a knife attack. It didn't, and the 25-year-old guard died of a heart wound."
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Back to the original topic of a Texas State Trooper being bladeless in time of need I have to agree with Cougar Allen (who wrote I'm pretty appalled at the idea of any adult male running around without a knife), what the hell was the trooper thinking? Guess I come from good stock (my grandfather ALWAYS carried a pocketknife) but I just think that carrying steel is part of being dressed. And certainly part of being prepared for anything a LEO might have to face in the field. Lastly, I can back up the fact that it's remarkably easy for a decent lockblade to deflate a tire in no time flat. (Don't ask.)
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I'm happy my tire shooting didn't leave me as a candidate for a Darwin Award
It was interesting though, and now I wish I had included a .45 in the test - I am not going to try it now. As for stopping the fleeing car I don't think either option is ideal, maybe equally risky. A knife can be stabbed in and out very quickly and hopefully you could let go if it started spinning. I think I would be compelled to just get out of the way or shoot at the driver if appropriate (trying to run someone over). As for police carrying a knife, I am with most of you - it seems absurd not to be required. I can think of plenty of other situations beyond seatbelts where some emergency cutting might need to be done. What would it hurt, a knife weighs little compared to many of the other goodies they regularly carry or wear.
David
David