Thanks Sal: me & spyderco vs 2 pit bulls

This needs to get back to original post; having a weapon to defend yourself and one of the characteristics of this particular knife was that as a broad based blade I had a better chance of lacerating something important.....the 'permanent cavity' if you will was wider than a thinner blade which would have been great for a precision stab. Under the circumstances presented to me there was no luxury of precision, I stabbed what I had access to and wanted the largest wound I could create with what I had.....same analogy of shot placement.....an expanding bullet has a larger permanent cavity and can injure more, i.e. the broader blade of the Native served me well for this. Of course I emailed someone I know at Spyderco and asked what other longer broad based blade would be recommended and the Manix 2 XL was suggested. Sounds like a good idea/suggestion to me, never be without a knife that can do the job and figure out what that job may be and adjust your carry preference to that. A thin width blade is great for a precision cut/stab but not big on the "I hope I cut something important internally".

just realized that my sig line is so true:D

Back on track.........
 
legion681 said:
Re. the bolded phrase: personally, I don't really like dogs that have ANY kind of aggressivity built-in. In my opinion, that's already a huge problem that will lead only to trouble of all sorts. I like my dogs nice and happy towards all living things. Not aggressive. That's why all my dogs have been Boston Terriers: they will LICK you to death...:)
Furthermore, it's irrelevant whether a pitbull has or hasn't any "natural" aggression towards humans because in real life if a pitbull attacks another dog, there is a very high chance that the owner of the dog attacked by the pitbull will be present and will intervene to try and save his/her dog. And my bet is that the pitbull will not just back down with a bow...
If you have any doubt about this, just read the first post of this very thread. The OP was bitten by pitbulls because he was defending his dogs. Natural aggression or not, his flesh was mauled by pitbulls...
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You seem to be missing my point entirely. Pit bull aggression is controllable. It has already been determined that the pit bulls that attacked traumadoc were raised and maintained improperly; that is not a point of contention.
 
traumadoc said:
This needs to get back to original post; having a weapon to defend yourself and one of the characteristics of this particular knife was that as a broad based blade I had a better chance of lacerating something important.....the 'permanent cavity' if you will was wider than a thinner blade which would have been great for a precision stab. Under the circumstances presented to me there was no luxury of precision, I stabbed what I had access to and wanted the largest wound I could create with what I had.....same analogy of shot placement.....an expanding bullet has a larger permanent cavity and can injure more, i.e. the broader blade of the Native served me well for this. Of course I emailed someone I know at Spyderco and asked what other longer broad based blade would be recommended and the Manix 2 XL was suggested. Sounds like a good idea/suggestion to me, never be without a knife that can do the job and figure out what that job may be and adjust your carry preference to that. A thin width blade is great for a precision cut/stab but not big on the "I hope I cut something important internally".

Back on track.........
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Have you thought about a small baseball bat? I think that would work even better. Or perhaps even a ballpeen hammer.
 
Murdamook said:
Have you thought about a small baseball bat? I think that would work even better. Or perhaps even a ballpeen hammer.
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Actually a bat or hammer is a less than ideal weapon under the circumstances....need to swing to generate enough force behind the blow....a knife needs little momentum to make it effective, simple physics. I also would have/could have hit my running partner or dogs who could get in the way or be too close to me which was in-fact the case. Of course you were being funny....right?

The blade geometry was perfect for the use I put it to.....Sal will be 'available' on Monday or so I was told so hopefully he will chime in on this......
 
I didnt realize upon reading this at first that your a surgeon that's crazy... As much as I love my dogs if I was a surgeon I think I might have kept my mtts away from the business end of the animal. How many stitches or staples did you and your dogs end up with?

All dogs can be great or bad my coworker ended up with a broken wrist from a bite from a smallish golden retriever mix.
 
Murdamook said:
Have you thought about a small baseball bat? I think that would work even better. Or perhaps even a ballpeen hammer.
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yes. let's all go running with baseball bats and ball peen hammers.................

and i think what he had worked just fine.
 
Trauma Doc. I'm glad to hear you took care of business.

It's like life plays a cruel joke, hopefully you'll never need your sidearm.
 
Ryanol said:
I didnt realize upon reading this at first that your a surgeon that's crazy... As much as I love my dogs if I was a surgeon I think I might have kept my mtts away from the business end of the animal. How many stitches or staples did you and your dogs end up with?

All dogs can be great or bad my coworker ended up with a broken wrist from a bite from a smallish golden retriever mix.
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It was definitely not my intent to put my hands at risk but under the circumstances, you do what must be done.....at least I used my non-dominant hand to push his head and got the bite there. No stitches/staples for me...one puncture and one 1.5 cm laceration....self treated, antibiotics, X-ray to be sure no breaks and none found, just one hell of a bruised bone...hurt like crazy. My one dog ended up with no significant lacerations just punctures all over his hindquarter...no stitches needed, just antibiotics and Abx ointment and dressings, my other dog somehow was injury free. I feel like we got lucky in the injury department......
 
There's no such thing as luck, take some credit, you and your dogs acted fast enough. :D
 
Seanifred said:
yes. let's all go running with baseball bats and ball peen hammers.................

and i think what he had worked just fine.
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Your piss-poor attempt at cynicism is humorous. I was speaking specifically about dog walking. It would not be odd to see an individual walking around with a small bat when walking a dog.
 
traumadoc said:
Actually a bat or hammer is a less than ideal weapon under the circumstances....need to swing to generate enough force behind the blow....a knife needs little momentum to make it effective, simple physics. I also would have/could have hit my running partner or dogs who could get in the way or be too close to me which was in-fact the case. Of course you were being funny....right?

The blade geometry was perfect for the use I put it to.....Sal will be 'available' on Monday or so I was told so hopefully he will chime in on this......
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I think there was a misunderstanding. The dog attacks I have witnessed have been very still. Never extremely frantic. The few attacks I have seen involved the dog grabbing another by the neck and pinning it down, in which case everything is very still which would allow for a stationary target. I was under the impression that the attack you experienced was similar until you got involved. In a frantic attack-which seems to be your case-I could see a small folder being more practical.
 
The one fight that was not still, but frantic, involved my Akita being attacked by a rott and a german shepherd. The fight turned negative for the other two dogs rather quickly, as my akita was near 180 pounds. After the dust settled, the only picture I remember was the rott being lifted in the air by its back and shaken so violently that it barely had the nerve to run away.
 
My wife was knocked down and bitten by a large dog while walking our dog. After that, I always carried pepper spray, a Spyderco, and a long stick that was 3 long. I carved a Philipino gavotte out of lignum vitae. The stick has a cross section like a diamond. You can't carry handguns where I live, and the stick is the next best option.
A neighbor of mine was attacked by a pit bull.
Dog attacks are common. It is better to carry a walking stick and a knife, than a knife alone. For sure, a pocket knife is better than nothing.
 
Murdamook said:
Have you thought about a small baseball bat? I think that would work even better. Or perhaps even a ballpeen hammer.
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He has already made it VERY clear he will always have his gun from now on.






Again, way to go Doc!!! And you are right about the width( edit-I meant height from spine to edge) of the blade helping. A 3" blade with less height may not have done the trick, and that could have turned out very bad.
This is the best story I've read since the Cougar attach that was stopped with a Spyderco:thumbup::thumbup:





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traumadoc, Just to clarify....the meaning of wider and thinner when referring to the blade creating a wound channel; are we referring to the distance from the spine to the edge, or thickness of the blade? Does the thickness have much relevance in determining the wound channel? I'm only asking because after reading the initial portions of this thread yesterday I decided to stop carrying my Spyderco Delica and either going to replace it with the Endura or Parmilitary 2. I walk my dog at night and to be honest, I started off carrying my gun, but recently with my nightly dog walking I haven't carried it consistently. That'll change now after reading this thread. I always carry an ASP collapsible baton but will definitely keep the gun on me and a larger folding knife or perhaps a fixed blade like my Rat 3. Now I kinda regret selling my Spyderco Superleaf. Maybe the Manix 2 XL is my next purchase as the OP commented on. Glad you and your dogs will be O.K.
 
Although I don't currently have one, the Native is one of my favorite Spydercos of all time. I think the Manix 2 is now my favorite USA Spyderco, but the Native is still a great knife. That said, I have a hard time imagining using one on a critter as fast as mean as a Pit Bull can be. I think the good nerves and eye hand coordination needed for surgery served the OP well in this instance. I would have needed at least a Bowie Knife to gete the same result!:thumbup:
 
mikellen said:
traumadoc, Just to clarify....the meaning of wider and thinner when referring to the blade creating a wound channel; are we referring to the distance from the spine to the edge, or thickness of the blade?
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In my above post I said blade width, my bad, sorry for the confusion. I do that often it seems. But, It's actually blade height (from spine to edge).

A large spine to edge height is what causes the larger wound channel. A thicker blade may help cause a slightly larger wound channel, but the blade height is the main reason.

I'm starting to confuse myself. Now we need a debate over when to use "width", and "height":p
 
Murdamook said:
You seem to be missing my point entirely. Pit bull aggression is controllable. It has already been determined that the pit bulls that attacked traumadoc were raised and maintained improperly; that is not a point of contention.
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Sure, pitbull aggression is controllable. But what happens when said pitbull is out on the loose without human supervision and therefore IT can decide whatever it wants to do? That's why I say that I prefer my dog(s) to have no aggressivity built-in towards anything. In my neighborhood I have seen a lot of pitbulls, american bulldogs, dobermanns and german sheperds out by themselves (dogs are great escape artists...have always been, will always be...) and to be perfectly honest I am not that positive about their attitude when their owner is not there to defuse any potentially dangerous situation. That's all.

I am a bit confused about what am I supposed to be missing in all honesty? Well, never mind. I said what I had to say.
 
So someone asked me wouldn't a karambit have been a better blade type ? My answer was no because of the limitations of space and speed, the straight stab worked better under the circumstances presented. The native's spear point and broadly tapered blade I thought was the best geometry for trying to hit something vital with grossly placed straight stabs. A karambit, in my hands, would have a wider swing and I may have only penetrated superficially with all of the dogs movement. My jabs as a straight shot could follow their heads better and with more consistency and gross accuracy
 
I'm glad you made it through with moderate injuries and nothing more serious. I think you reacted better than most others would have.
 
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