That ONE friend who can't understand...

[pinnah]

Painting oneself into a corner and doubling down on your position, because that always works. Can't beat it for entertainment value, that's for sure.

Ok, so, you've got a real chance to change some minds here. Please share with us exactly what you did that made a Buck 110 fail, but then were able to accomplish with an Opinel 10. I'd like you to tell us all.

Because then I'm going to go do it with my Opinel 10, and one of my Buck 110s with a friend running camera, and we'll see how well your "actual experience" stands up to reality. You in?

Sure. Let me check if I have a spare #10 Inox kicking around and I'll send it to you. Just shoot me contact information in the VM.

Let's get on the same page on a few things though, as I feel like I've said the same thing over and over and it's somehow not gotten through.

First and most importantly, please don't test the lock strength of either knife. a) The Opinel's lock is not designed to withstand strong closing forces and will just pop off. b) Everybody knows this already and nobody is asserting that an Opinel has a strong lock, so you won't be proving anything. c) I don't want your mom yelling at me because I somehow goaded you into doing something stupid with an Opinel that resulted in you cutting off a few fingers.

Now, I'll do what you've asked and I will tell you "exactly" what I've done to cause Buck 110s and other lock backs to fail.

Hard cutting in wood, often with a twist to the blade. And I use them in wet sandy conditions regularly.

I maintain two properties (including my uncle's cabin) both of which get encroached on by trees and brush. I regularly bend cut back saplings and branches with my pocket knife because I'm too lazy to carry or fetch bigger tools. We all also camp regularly and make fires I the back yard regularly which entails making lots of shavings. It's not uncommon for me to get my blade stuck in the wood and to free it with a bit of a twist. Note, I don't consider this extremely brutal use but it's the I do that wrecks knives.

My uncle's cabin is on a sand beach and much of the camping we do is in sandy areas. And working on the property and in the garden exposes my knives to a lot of sand and dirt. One thing I look for in a working knife is the ability to continue working when dropped in the dirt and sand. When I drop a 110 in the sand, the joint gets fouled. I've had them fouled enough that the lock bar sits proud, which means I'm not getting full lock up which is dangerous. Because it's a friction folder, teh Opinel can be used safely with the lock ring entirely removed (they were sold this way for the first 50 years). This would be very easy to test. Bury both knives in the sand and see if they safely stay open. Just don't get hurt with a poorly locking up 110, as the blade can snap shut quickly.

I've got a knife roll full of lock backs. Mostly Bucks but a good number of Schrade US too. About 1/4 of them have vertical play that they've developed over the years from hard cutting. Once vertical play starts, I find it gets worse. And it's not something I can fix.

Some of my lock backs have developed horizontal play too. On the traditional ones, like the Buck 110/112 or the Schrade 6OT, horizontal play is easily and temporarily fixed by just gently squeezing in a padded vice. The plastic framed knives don't respond as well to this.

I would be interested in how you plan on testing the knives and capturing it video. IME, this kind of wear shows itself over the course of a year and it's better to just keep 2 knives handy and to use them side by each for year.

I can say this, it might be fast and sad to test for horizontal play by putting the blade in a vice and working the knife back and forth. On a classic Buck 110, I would expect this to pry open the front bolster in short order. On the Opinel, you'll snap the blade long before you'll get the joint to open up. In particular, I don't recommend this approach for adjusting the pivot tension on an Opinel. It doesn't make the joint less tight. I've busted 2 blades trying this. (A large flat head screw driver twisted in the edge of the collar is more effective.)

I have no idea how to quickly replicate the force generated by hard cutting in wood. Perhaps you could put the blade in a vice and wack the handle open with a rubber mallet? Again, I think using the knives hard for a few months or a year is a better approach.

Lastly, if you literally want to hammer on the knives, the Opinel 10 will stand up to light/moderate battoning, so long as you keep the lock ring disengaged. Just use the blade as a froe and use the freely pivoting handle to recenter the blade as needed. I did get one Opinel 10 to loosen up a bit by battoning hard with it. It developed a tiny by of vertical play, which was easily fixed by re-peeing the pivot pin. I would be sad to see you do this with a Buck 110 though as it would destroy the lock bar/blade faces and the soft brass pivot pin.

Just checked my stash... I don't have a spare #10 kicking around but I do have a spare #9 Inox I can send you. I wouldn't baton hard with the #9 but I do baton lightly with mine regularly.

Let me know and I'll send you the knife.

 

[pinnah]

I have never had ANY knife break on me, so whatever point you were attempting to establish about the alleged durability of your Opinel has failed, unfortunately. I have owned and used many knives of different steels for various tasks, and can tell you that the carbon steel Opinel uses is actually complete trash. I have had $15 Chinese-made 8cr Kershaws that held an edge longer. My household buys a LOT of stuff from Amazon, so before recycling day, I often have between ten and thirty boxes that I then cut into strips using various knives in order to test various factors (usually edge longevity and grind effectiveness). I am not sure what use an Opinel was designed for, but I would never in any actual conscience recommend one to anyone who needed a knife to stay sharp for longer than a few minutes of actual work. Also, wood-working? The blade on my 8 was so thin, that after the knife promptly dulled out, trying to push the blade through the wood I was whittling made my thumb hurt, so I said screw it, tossed the knife in the fire, and got a better tool (at that time, a PM2).

I'm asking about breaking or loosening up because this was the issue the OP raised about his buddy's knives. His buddy is breaking knives and I noted that the Opinel is a durable knife.

In terms of steel, IME, their carbon and stainless are very different. When I got my first Opinel (which confused me), I dug around and asked questions, mostly in the Traditional forum to try to figure the knife out. A guy there named Pete reported that he worked for many years in the HVAC industry and when he did, his work knife was a Opinel 9 Carbone. He used the knife abusively to plunge cut and hack through ductwork and flashing. The picture of his knife wasn't pretty. He sharpened his blade regularly and the blade was quite worn down and worn out. But this is a classic use for the relatively soft and very tough 1084. It won't chip and it takes a lot to dent it. Yes, it won't hold an edge long if you want a sharp edge.

As I've noted, the Inox is 12C27 hardened to 58Rc. It's practically identical to Buck's 420HC in every respect from a usage perspective.

Like you, I don't care for the Opinel 8. The Inox blades will keep an edge as well as any comparable stainless in this price range (Aus 8 would be better if you can it in the sub $25 range) but the issue is that the blade is too flexible for working on hard woods. But I'm not sure why the #8 is being mentioned. It's not a particularly sturdy knife.

 

[pinnah]

Exactly. No matter the thread, an opinel is recommended. Has been happening for years. Reminds me of Gaston turning every thread into cpm bashing. Helps no one. That said, we can't put up with blatantly wrong missinformation based on personal bias.

The op has gotten lots of good advice despite this opinel distraction.

The knives I've recommended in this thread include: the Mora Companion, the Opinel 9/10, the Ontario Rat 1/2 (on account of their reputation), any Buck (on account of their warranty).

Like you and everybody else on this board, I recommend knives that have served me well. I generally only recommend an Opinel in cases where durability and light weight matter.

The "opinel distraction" was caused by people who can't stand Opinels. Had they (and you) not challenged the recommendation, it would have passed along largely unnoticed.

We agree on the problem of "blatantly wrong misinformation". Everything I've posted about the Opinel is true and based in my actual experience. The misinformation has been spread by you and others who have little or no direct experience with an Opinel 9 or 10. Quiet asserted you need to disassemble the knife to waterproof it effective. Simply not true. Jackknife has complained about Opinels breaking, but hasn't been fully forthcoming that he's referring to an Opinel 7, which is indeed, not a durable knife. And you've discounted the Opinel while admitting its a knife you don't have direct experience with.

I am reminded of the scene in 2001 when the apes are confronted with the obelisk they don't understand and the stamp their feet and hurl their feces at it. The problem here isn't the obelisk.

 

[craytab]

Sure. Let me check if I have a spare #10 Inox kicking around and I'll send it to you. Just shoot me contact information in the VM.

Let's get on the same page on a few things though, as I feel like I've said the same thing over and over and it's somehow not gotten through.

First and most importantly, please don't test the lock strength of either knife. a) The Opinel's lock is not designed to withstand strong closing forces and will just pop off. b) Everybody knows this already and nobody is asserting that an Opinel has a strong lock, so you won't be proving anything. c) I don't want your mom yelling at me because I somehow goaded you into doing something stupid with an Opinel that resulted in you cutting off a few fingers.

Now, I'll do what you've asked and I will tell you "exactly" what I've done to cause Buck 110s and other lock backs to fail.

Hard cutting in wood, often with a twist to the blade. And I use them in wet sandy conditions regularly.

I maintain two properties (including my uncle's cabin) both of which get encroached on by trees and brush. I regularly bend cut back saplings and branches with my pocket knife because I'm too lazy to carry or fetch bigger tools. We all also camp regularly and make fires I the back yard regularly which entails making lots of shavings. It's not uncommon for me to get my blade stuck in the wood and to free it with a bit of a twist. Note, I don't consider this extremely brutal use but it's the I do that wrecks knives.

My uncle's cabin is on a sand beach and much of the camping we do is in sandy areas. And working on the property and in the garden exposes my knives to a lot of sand and dirt. One thing I look for in a working knife is the ability to continue working when dropped in the dirt and sand. When I drop a 110 in the sand, the joint gets fouled. I've had them fouled enough that the lock bar sits proud, which means I'm not getting full lock up which is dangerous. Because it's a friction folder, teh Opinel can be used safely with the lock ring entirely removed (they were sold this way for the first 50 years). This would be very easy to test. Bury both knives in the sand and see if they safely stay open. Just don't get hurt with a poorly locking up 110, as the blade can snap shut quickly.

I've got a knife roll full of lock backs. Mostly Bucks but a good number of Schrade US too. About 1/4 of them have vertical play that they've developed over the years from hard cutting. Once vertical play starts, I find it gets worse. And it's not something I can fix.

Some of my lock backs have developed horizontal play too. On the traditional ones, like the Buck 110/112 or the Schrade 6OT, horizontal play is easily and temporarily fixed by just gently squeezing in a padded vice. The plastic framed knives don't respond as well to this.

I would be interested in how you plan on testing the knives and capturing it video. IME, this kind of wear shows itself over the course of a year and it's better to just keep 2 knives handy and to use them side by each for year.

I can say this, it might be fast and sad to test for horizontal play by putting the blade in a vice and working the knife back and forth. On a classic Buck 110, I would expect this to pry open the front bolster in short order. On the Opinel, you'll snap the blade long before you'll get the joint to open up. In particular, I don't recommend this approach for adjusting the pivot tension on an Opinel. It doesn't make the joint less tight. I've busted 2 blades trying this. (A large flat head screw driver twisted in the edge of the collar is more effective.)

I have no idea how to quickly replicate the force generated by hard cutting in wood. Perhaps you could put the blade in a vice and wack the handle open with a rubber mallet? Again, I think using the knives hard for a few months or a year is a better approach.

Lastly, if you literally want to hammer on the knives, the Opinel 10 will stand up to light/moderate battoning, so long as you keep the lock ring disengaged. Just use the blade as a froe and use the freely pivoting handle to recenter the blade as needed. I did get one Opinel 10 to loosen up a bit by battoning hard with it. It developed a tiny by of vertical play, which was easily fixed by re-peeing the pivot pin. I would be sad to see you do this with a Buck 110 though as it would destroy the lock bar/blade faces and the soft brass pivot pin.

Just checked my stash... I don't have a spare #10 kicking around but I do have a spare #9 Inox I can send you. I wouldn't baton hard with the #9 but I do baton lightly with mine regularly.

Let me know and I'll send you the knife.

I'm asking about breaking or loosening up because this was the issue the OP raised about his buddy's knives. His buddy is breaking knives and I noted that the Opinel is a durable knife.

In terms of steel, IME, their carbon and stainless are very different. When I got my first Opinel (which confused me), I dug around and asked questions, mostly in the Traditional forum to try to figure the knife out. A guy there named Pete reported that he worked for many years in the HVAC industry and when he did, his work knife was a Opinel 9 Carbone. He used the knife abusively to plunge cut and hack through ductwork and flashing. The picture of his knife wasn't pretty. He sharpened his blade regularly and the blade was quite worn down and worn out. But this is a classic use for the relatively soft and very tough 1084. It won't chip and it takes a lot to dent it. Yes, it won't hold an edge long if you want a sharp edge.

As I've noted, the Inox is 12C27 hardened to 58Rc. It's practically identical to Buck's 420HC in every respect from a usage perspective.

Like you, I don't care for the Opinel 8. The Inox blades will keep an edge as well as any comparable stainless in this price range (Aus 8 would be better if you can it in the sub $25 range) but the issue is that the blade is too flexible for working on hard woods. But I'm not sure why the #8 is being mentioned. It's not a particularly sturdy knife.

Jeebus man, give it a rest.

No one thinks your recommendation of an opinel is a good idea except you. The guy breaks knives with better locks. He would destroy an opinel right quick.

You don't have to keep justifying you love of the opinel to anyone. You love it and that is fine. Just don't push it into recommendation threads where it does not belong. Continuing to derail a perfectly fine thread with your walls of text is getting a bit embarrassing.

 

[craytab]

The knives I've recommended in this thread include: the Mora Companion, the Opinel 9/10, the Ontario Rat 1/2 (on account of their reputation), any Buck (on account of their warranty).

Like you and everybody else on this board, I recommend knives that have served me well. I generally only recommend an Opinel in cases where durability and light weight matter.

The "opinel distraction" was caused by people who can't stand Opinels. Had they (and you) not challenged the recommendation, it would have passed along largely unnoticed.

We agree on the problem of "blatantly wrong misinformation". Everything I've posted about the Opinel is true and based in my actual experience. The misinformation has been spread by you and others who have little or no direct experience with an Opinel 9 or 10. Quiet asserted you need to disassemble the knife to waterproof it effective. Simply not true. Jackknife has complained about Opinels breaking, but hasn't been fully forthcoming that he's referring to an Opinel 7, which is indeed, not a durable knife. And you've discounted the Opinel while admitting its a knife you don't have direct experience with.

I am reminded of the scene in 2001 when the apes are confronted with the obelisk they don't understand and the stamp their feet and hurl their feces at it. The problem here isn't the obelisk.

You only recommended the RAT after you got push back. You used the buck knives more of an example of what not to get. You aren't writing walls of text about the mora. Your recommendation of the opinel is completely off base given the topic of this thread. You got called on it because you do it all the time. You are spreading bad information. Please stop.

 

[pinnah]

Well! This has been extremely informative. I have much to ponder. Thank you, everyone, who joined in!

Heartland, looks like you're bowing out so I will too.

I will close with these 2 comments.

First, if your buddy carries knives with a pocket clip, you should stick to looking for knives with a pocket clip and you should entirely ignore any of the traditional knives I've mentioned such as the Buck 110, Opinel 9/10, or Large Case Sodbuster. I've found that these knives are much better either carried in a belt holster or in the rear pocket (with a seam sewn in it to keep them riding upright). IME, these knives are all too big and bulky to be comfortably carried in a front pocket. The Buck 500 is the one traditional I would recommend for front pocket carry. Better to stick with a pocket clip design if that's what he's used to.

Second, Craytab gave what is probably the best advice in the thread in recommending getting a knife from a manufacturer with a good warranty. I'm pretty loyal to Buck for EDC and can attest that they have a ridiculously generous warranty.

 

[Quiet]

Sure. Let me check if I have a spare #10 Inox kicking around and I'll send it to you. Just shoot me contact information in the VM.

Let's get on the same page on a few things though, as I feel like I've said the same thing over and over and it's somehow not gotten through.

First and most importantly, please don't test the lock strength of either knife. a) The Opinel's lock is not designed to withstand strong closing forces and will just pop off. b) Everybody knows this already and nobody is asserting that an Opinel has a strong lock, so you won't be proving anything. c) I don't want your mom yelling at me because I somehow goaded you into doing something stupid with an Opinel that resulted in you cutting off a few fingers.

Now, I'll do what you've asked and I will tell you "exactly" what I've done to cause Buck 110s and other lock backs to fail.

Hard cutting in wood, often with a twist to the blade. And I use them in wet sandy conditions regularly.

I maintain two properties (including my uncle's cabin) both of which get encroached on by trees and brush. I regularly bend cut back saplings and branches with my pocket knife because I'm too lazy to carry or fetch bigger tools. We all also camp regularly and make fires I the back yard regularly which entails making lots of shavings. It's not uncommon for me to get my blade stuck in the wood and to free it with a bit of a twist. Note, I don't consider this extremely brutal use but it's the I do that wrecks knives.

My uncle's cabin is on a sand beach and much of the camping we do is in sandy areas. And working on the property and in the garden exposes my knives to a lot of sand and dirt. One thing I look for in a working knife is the ability to continue working when dropped in the dirt and sand. When I drop a 110 in the sand, the joint gets fouled. I've had them fouled enough that the lock bar sits proud, which means I'm not getting full lock up which is dangerous. Because it's a friction folder, teh Opinel can be used safely with the lock ring entirely removed (they were sold this way for the first 50 years). This would be very easy to test. Bury both knives in the sand and see if they safely stay open. Just don't get hurt with a poorly locking up 110, as the blade can snap shut quickly.

I've got a knife roll full of lock backs. Mostly Bucks but a good number of Schrade US too. About 1/4 of them have vertical play that they've developed over the years from hard cutting. Once vertical play starts, I find it gets worse. And it's not something I can fix.

Some of my lock backs have developed horizontal play too. On the traditional ones, like the Buck 110/112 or the Schrade 6OT, horizontal play is easily and temporarily fixed by just gently squeezing in a padded vice. The plastic framed knives don't respond as well to this.

I would be interested in how you plan on testing the knives and capturing it video. IME, this kind of wear shows itself over the course of a year and it's better to just keep 2 knives handy and to use them side by each for year.

I can say this, it might be fast and sad to test for horizontal play by putting the blade in a vice and working the knife back and forth. On a classic Buck 110, I would expect this to pry open the front bolster in short order. On the Opinel, you'll snap the blade long before you'll get the joint to open up. In particular, I don't recommend this approach for adjusting the pivot tension on an Opinel. It doesn't make the joint less tight. I've busted 2 blades trying this. (A large flat head screw driver twisted in the edge of the collar is more effective.)

I have no idea how to quickly replicate the force generated by hard cutting in wood. Perhaps you could put the blade in a vice and wack the handle open with a rubber mallet? Again, I think using the knives hard for a few months or a year is a better approach.

Lastly, if you literally want to hammer on the knives, the Opinel 10 will stand up to light/moderate battoning, so long as you keep the lock ring disengaged. Just use the blade as a froe and use the freely pivoting handle to recenter the blade as needed. I did get one Opinel 10 to loosen up a bit by battoning hard with it. It developed a tiny by of vertical play, which was easily fixed by re-peeing the pivot pin. I would be sad to see you do this with a Buck 110 though as it would destroy the lock bar/blade faces and the soft brass pivot pin.

Just checked my stash... I don't have a spare #10 kicking around but I do have a spare #9 Inox I can send you. I wouldn't baton hard with the #9 but I do baton lightly with mine regularly.

Let me know and I'll send you the knife.

Firstly, I will not require you sending me a knife. That has been my entire point all along. I already own both the knives (and thus have extensive experience) that you have been talking about in this thread, so none of the points I have made have been conjecture or from some hypothesis I had about how Opinels (or Buck 110s) would perform if I had them. I already do. Also, my mother? I am not sure if you're attempting to be cute, but as I haven't lived with my parents in....22, 23 years or so? I am not too worried that she'll be upset that I am conducting knife testing, though I appreciate the concern. If you are attempting to insinuate that I am somehow underage or juvenile, rest assured, that was more damaging to your image than mine.

Secondly, I am not sure why you are suddenly attempting to place caveats and "Well, be careful not to"s on whatever I decide to do to test these knives. Are you admitting to me right now that you're concerned that the Buck 110 will hold up to stresses that would completely destroy an Opinel 10? I mean, if you are, let me know, and we can end this charade right now. It's not like I will enjoy anything about this process other than proving you wrong, so what I'm getting from this is that no matter WHAT I do, you're going to find some way to rationalize that the Opinel should have won, and I somehow tested something incorrectly. "Well, you should have..." or "Weeelll, see, if you'd tested the Opinel this way, it would have..." aren't going to fly.

And cutting to the chase, reading back through this giant wall of text, you describing what would actually be moderate use for any other knife starting to do things like loosen the ring lock, or developing vertical play on an Opinel is telling. Those things happen, because Opinels are garbage little throwaway knives. I'm starting to think that all I needed to do was make the offer, because it's obvious to me at this point that you're VERY GD AWARE that a Buck 110 will stand up to more abuse than an Opinel 10 could take, and that's not condusive to the points you've attempted to make.

Fact is, OF COURSE I expect to snap the Opinel 10 blade before breaking a Buck 110 by applying lateral pressure in a vice. One's a cheap little throwaway garbage knife, and the other is a knife that had working, police, and military America covered for 40 years.

Which has been my point.

 

[craytab]

Well! This has been extremely informative. I have much to ponder. Thank you, everyone, who joined in!

Do come back and let us know what you decide. Seriously, Kershaw injection for the win! If he breaks that one it was only $15 and not $10!

 

[Quiet]

Lastly, Pinnah, I owe you thanks. In inadvertently attempting to backstep on your position once the prospect of actual on-camera testing was presented, your backsliding and attempting to place caveats helped illustrate my points entirely on how much less of a knife the Opinel 10 is in every respect than a Buck 110, and that your initial absolute Opinel fanbagging was just that. I feel like we're on the same page now, especially as you essentially provided a laundry list of all the ways that the Opinel will fail when put to any actual hard use. I'll be keeping this thread saved for posterity for the next time you go into a thread where someone's asking for a durable, hard use knife and you recommend an Opinel. Clearly, that is NOT a quality recommendation, and I think you know that at this point.

So, again, thanks for all the fish, and I hope you and everyone else here has a simply fantastic day.

 

[BITEME]

Buy him a real junker to honor his history,then let him be.

 

[ShannonSteelLabs]

Carl, I've owned, used and wrecked around 1/2 a dozen plastic handled Bucks over the past 10 years or so. They last about year, sometimes less for me and the failure mode is consistent. They develop either vertical play, horizontal blade play or both. Sadly, this also includes the metal linered paper stone 112 I had. While I've never made a direct warranty claim to Buck on these knives (they are too cheap to be worth it, imo) I've sent 2 or 3 back to Joe Hauser, the head of Buck's warranty program, so they can inspect them. Based on what he saw, Joe advised me to stick with the full metal versions of the knives as they are more durable. The issue is that the holes for pivot pin and lock bar pin are prone to deforming under hard use, thus allowing the play to develop. If you don't believe me, you can find Joe's contact information pretty easily.

NOTE: The Bantam, Bucklites, the plastic Omni Hunters and the new LT series are designed first and foremost as hunting knives and if used for hunting or general light EDC use, they are just fine. The problems don't appear until you do regular hard cutting such as cutting back branches.

IMO, the BS here is your continued reference to the failure you had with a small Opinel 7, which is very small knife and easily overcome. I very specifically did not and would not recommend an Opinel 7, or 8 for that matter, to somebody who regularly breaks knives. Asserting that Opinel 9s or 10s are frail because an Opinel 7 broke on you would be like me saying that a large Case Sodbuster is frail because I saw somebody bust a Case Peanut. Or its like somebody saying that a wooden axe handle isn't durable because they once broke a wooden handle on a leaf rake.

If you are cutting back branches shouldn't you just use a small to medium fixed blade? Or a knife with a more durable locking mechanism?

 

[pinnah]

And cutting to the chase, reading back through this giant wall of text, you describing what would actually be moderate use for any other knife starting to do things like loosen the ring lock, or developing vertical play on an Opinel is telling. Those things happen, because Opinels are garbage little throwaway knives. I'm starting to think that all I needed to do was make the offer, because it's obvious to me at this point that you're VERY GD AWARE that a Buck 110 will stand up to more abuse than an Opinel 10 could take, and that's not condusive to the points you've attempted to make.

Fact is, OF COURSE I expect to snap the Opinel 10 blade before breaking a Buck 110 by applying lateral pressure in a vice. One's a cheap little throwaway garbage knife, and the other is a knife that had working, police, and military America covered for 40 years.

Which has been my point.

The only caveat I've made is strength of the locking mechanism. Nobody argues that an Opinel's lock will stay open if forced closed. It won't, so don't bother testing it.

If you put any traditional lock back's blade in a vice and work it back and forth, you will destroy the joint at the front bolster before you break the blade. I question how much experience you have using a lock back hard. If you pry with them, they loosen up. Complain about this in the Buck forum and the old timers will tell you that prying with a Buck is abuse. In the resistance to lateral play, the knives aren't even close.

The same is true to their ability to stand up to hard cutting.

But please, go ahead. You have the knives. Please destroy them and post pictures.

 

[pinnah]

If you are cutting back branches shouldn't you just use a small to medium fixed blade? Or a knife with a more durable locking mechanism?

Colin,

Well yes. There's a reason why I recommended the Mora Companion in my very first post.

This said, I prefer to move around with a folder in my rear pocket than having a fixed blade on my belt. I just don't like stuff on my belt.

I don't see how locking mechanism durability applies to hard cutting in wood. IME, the durability issues I encounter have to do with a knife developing horizontal play from repeated hard cuts or lateral play from repeated prying. I try to never rely on a lock of any folding knife, even my 110s, which have notoriously strong locks.

Note, my large Case Sodbuster is more durable for hard cutting in wood than my Buck 110 is and its not a traditional slip joint design.

 

[Quiet]

The only caveat I've made is strength of the locking mechanism. Nobody argues that an Opinel's lock will stay up if forced closed. It won't, so don't bother testing it.

If you put any traditional lock back's blade in a vice and work it back and forth, you will destroy the joint at the front bolster before you break the blade. I question how much experience you have using a lock back hard. If you pry with them, they loosen up. Complain about this in the Buck forum and the old timers will tell you that prying with a Buck is abuse. In the resistance to lateral play, the knives aren't even close.

The same is true to their ability to stand up to hard cutting.

But please, go ahead. You have the knives. Please destroy them and post pictures.

Sooooo....which is it? The lock won't stay up if forced closed or:

You might get a Mora Companion and an Opinel #9 (or 10) Inox and then set upon the task of trying to break the knives. You'll work harden and snap the blade off the Opinel long before you can break the joint. And the crude but effective friction folder/lock ring design grew out of farming use and is nearly impossible to jam and degrade with mud and junk in it.

I mean, you certainly have enough confidence in the Opinel to boast "just try to break it!" as you did here:

Try to break it and report back. Ditto with an Opinel #10.

So, which is it? An Opinel 10 suddenly has all these caveats in how it shouldn't be used because it'll break, ooooorrrrrrr.....?

Exactly. Yeah, that paint is going to take awhile to dry, so you can just sit there in the corner and consider how contradictory your posts in this thread have been.

 

[pinnah]

The guy breaks knives with better locks. He would destroy an opinel right quick.

Says the man who's never used one?

Quiet seems to be backing out of a picture challenge. Willing to put your money where your mouth is?

I've had more than a few busted up modern knives come across my work bench from friends wondering why their knives have broken and the locks failed. From an engineering standpoint, it's pretty obvious. The screwed together slab construction puts a lot of stress on the connecting screws. Prying forces on the blade translate into sheering forces on the screws and their holes. Hard cutting forces concentrate force on the stop pin assembly. And lacking any back spring like a lock back or slip joint has and lacking any friction in the joint like a friction folder does, once the front joint is compromised and the lock fails, the blade flops around dangerously.

Since Quiet now has second thoughts and doesn't want to bust up a cheap Opinel, I'll be happy to send you #9 Inox. You can think of whatever destructive tests you can think of so long as it marginally relates to the durability of the knife under hard use in the hand. [Edited to add: it's pointless to compare edge hold across these price points as modern steels will flat out out perform the Opinel's Inox for edge retention.]

In fact, I'll even spot you a x10 cost lead. You can pick any modern slab constructed folding knife you want of comparable size to the Opinel #9 so long as it is $180 or less. You put both knives through the same tests, take pictures and share the results.

You game? Just shoot me your address in a VM and I'll send you a knife.

 

[pinnah]

Sooooo....which is it? The lock won't stay up if forced closed or:



I mean, you certainly have enough confidence in the Opinel to boast "just try to break it!" as you did here:


So, which is it? An Opinel 10 suddenly has all these caveats in how it shouldn't be used because it'll break, ooooorrrrrrr.....?

Exactly. Yeah, that paint is going to take awhile to dry, so you can just sit there in the corner and consider how contradictory your posts in this thread have been.

Quiet... I'm not sure what your confusion is.

I'm happy to send you a knife for your challenge.

I'll make this as simple as 1, 2, 3. Please don't respond hastily. Read carefully. I'm not backing out of anything.

There are 3 ways to stress a locking folder.
1) Strong cutting forces.
2) Strong prying forces.
3) Strong closing forces.

An Opinel is much stronger in cases 1) and 2).
A Buck 110 is much stronger in case 3).

I don't consider case 3) relevant for hard cutting uses. If you do, there is no need to test it. Blade HQ's YouTube test of lock strength is better than anything you and I will come up with. The Buck 112 one that by a large margin.

I'm happy to see you test the knives in terms of 1) hard cutting forces and 2) strong prying forces.

My prediction is that you'll wreck the front bolster/pivot/lock bar on the Buck as that is the weak link in the chain of that knife. And I predict you'll eventually bust the blade of the blade of the Opinel through some prying test, as the handle and joint are much stronger than the blade, which is my primary point.

This isn't due to junk steel in the Opinel, btw. The Inox and Buck 420HC are essentially the same. If you want an Inox 9 to bust up, I'm happy to send it to you but you'll need to coordinate with Craytab as I've made the same offer to him.

Would love to see destructive comparison of an Opinel 9 or 10 vs a Buck 110 if you're willing to do it and document it.

 

[Quiet]

Says the man who's never used one?

Quiet seems to be backing out of a picture challenge. Willing to put your money where your mouth is?

I've more than a few busted up modern knives come across my work bench from friends wondering why their knives have broken and the locks failed. From an engineering standpoint, it's pretty obvious. The screwed together slab construction puts a lot of stress on the connecting screws. Prying forces on the blade translate into sheering forces on the screws and their holes. Hard cutting forces concentrate force on the stop pin assembly. And lacking any back spring like a lock back or slip joint has and lacking any friction in the joint like a friction folder does, once the front joint is compromised and the lock fails, the blade flops around dangerously.

Since Quiet now has second thoughts and doesn't want to bust up a cheap Opinel, I'll be happy to send you #9 Inox. You can think of whatever destructive tests you can think of so long as it marginally relates to hard use in the hand.

In fact, I'll even spot you a x10 cost lead. You can pick any knife you want of comparable size to the Opinel #9 so long as it is $180 or less. You put both knives through the same tests, take pictures and share the results.

You game? Just shoot me your address in a VM and I'll send you a knife.

LMAO I'm not backing out of any challenge whatsoever. I ISSUED the challenge, and suddenly you were all:

First and most importantly, please don't test the lock strength of either knife. a) The Opinel's lock is not designed to withstand strong closing forces and will just pop off. b) Everybody knows this already and nobody is asserting that an Opinel has a strong lock, so you won't be proving anything.

I can say this, it might be fast and sad to test for horizontal play by putting the blade in a vice and working the knife back and forth. On a classic Buck 110, I would expect this to pry open the front bolster in short order. On the Opinel, you'll snap the blade long before you'll get the joint to open up. In particular, I don't recommend this approach for adjusting the pivot tension on an Opinel.

I have no idea how to quickly replicate the force generated by hard cutting in wood. Perhaps you could put the blade in a vice and wack the handle open with a rubber mallet? Again, I think using the knives hard for a few months or a year is a better approach.

Lastly, if you literally want to hammer on the knives, the Opinel 10 will stand up to light/moderate battoning, so long as you keep the lock ring disengaged. Just use the blade as a froe and use the freely pivoting handle to recenter the blade as needed. I did get one Opinel 10 to loosen up a bit by battoning hard with it. It developed a tiny by of vertical play, which was easily fixed by re-peeing the pivot pin. I would be sad to see you do this with a Buck 110 though as it would destroy the lock bar/blade faces and the soft brass pivot pin.

So, a bunch of caveats, and you admit outright in your first sentence that the Opinel's lock design is trash (after being full of bravado early in the thread about how indestructible they were). You essentially admitted what I've been saying all along. It's right there, in that sentence. Do I really need to elaborate? By the way? $180 or less? LOL What does a Cold Steel American Lawman run these days? It's technically a backlock, and would absolutely shrug off anything that would outright destroy an Opinel.

At this point, I don't really know what else there is for you to say. You are literally bankrupt of facts. I can still go destroy these two cheap knives, but all it will prove is what we all (except you*) know and that is that Opinels are poorly made of inferior materials and aren't built for anything approaching hard use, whereas a Buck 110 was a hard use knife for millions of people for decades.

Anyway, I'll be glad to post up pictures of the two knives, but at this point, I don't think anyone really cares. The facts are the facts.


* Heh, no, you secretly also know

 

[Quiet]

Quiet... I'm not sure what your confusion is.

I'm happy to send you a knife for your challenge.

I'll make this as simple as 1, 2, 3. Please don't respond hastily. Read carefully. I'm not backing out of anything.

There are 3 ways to stress a locking folder.
1) Strong cutting forces.
2) Strong prying forces.
3) Strong closing forces.

An Opinel is much stronger in cases 1) and 2).
A Buck 110 is much stronger in case 3).

I don't consider case 3) relevant for hard cutting uses. If you do, there is no need to test it. Blade HQ's YouTube test of lock strength is better than anything you and I will come up with. The Buck 112 one that by a large margin.

I'm happy to see you test the knives in terms of 1) hard cutting forces and 2) strong prying forces.

My prediction is that you'll wreck the front bolster/pivot/lock bar on the Buck as that is the weak link in the chain of that knife. And I predict you'll eventually bust the blade of the blade of the Opinel through some prying test, as the handle and joint are much stronger than the blade, which is my primary point.

This isn't due to junk steel in the Opinel, btw. The Inox and Buck 420HC are essentially the same. If you want an Inox 9 to bust up, I'm happy to send it to you but you'll need to coordinate with Craytab as I've made the same offer to him.

Would love to see destructive comparison of an Opinel 9 or 10 vs a Buck 110 if you're willing to do it and document it.

I am pretty sure we're going to get this thread locked, and dinged at this point, but I just want to ask you a simple question: Is the Opinel 10 a strong, indestructible knife like you were boasting early in the thread?

I know full well what the testing would show, I just want to see you stand behind your earlier assertions. Better yet, this is my last post in this thread. I am beating a dead horse at this point, and I'm sure a lot of people are wondering why I'm even bothering. Everyone here knows you and your bias at this point, so this whole thing has been a waste of time. You make baseless assertions, you get challenged, and then the merry-go-round starts. I think I'll get off here.

 

[craytab]

Says the man who's never used one?

Quiet seems to be backing out of a picture challenge. Willing to put your money where your mouth is?

I've had more than a few busted up modern knives come across my work bench from friends wondering why their knives have broken and the locks failed. From an engineering standpoint, it's pretty obvious. The screwed together slab construction puts a lot of stress on the connecting screws. Prying forces on the blade translate into sheering forces on the screws and their holes. Hard cutting forces concentrate force on the stop pin assembly. And lacking any back spring like a lock back or slip joint has and lacking any friction in the joint like a friction folder does, once the front joint is compromised and the lock fails, the blade flops around dangerously.

Since Quiet now has second thoughts and doesn't want to bust up a cheap Opinel, I'll be happy to send you #9 Inox. You can think of whatever destructive tests you can think of so long as it marginally relates to the durability of the knife under hard use in the hand. [Edited to add: it's pointless to compare edge hold across these price points as modern steels will flat out out perform the Opinel's Inox for edge retention.]

In fact, I'll even spot you a x10 cost lead. You can pick any modern slab constructed folding knife you want of comparable size to the Opinel #9 so long as it is $180 or less. You put both knives through the same tests, take pictures and share the results.

You game? Just shoot me your address in a VM and I'll send you a knife.

Quiet... I'm not sure what your confusion is.

I'm happy to send you a knife for your challenge.

I'll make this as simple as 1, 2, 3. Please don't respond hastily. Read carefully. I'm not backing out of anything.

There are 3 ways to stress a locking folder.
1) Strong cutting forces.
2) Strong prying forces.
3) Strong closing forces.

An Opinel is much stronger in cases 1) and 2).
A Buck 110 is much stronger in case 3).

I don't consider case 3) relevant for hard cutting uses. If you do, there is no need to test it. Blade HQ's YouTube test of lock strength is better than anything you and I will come up with. The Buck 112 one that by a large margin.

I'm happy to see you test the knives in terms of 1) hard cutting forces and 2) strong prying forces.

My prediction is that you'll wreck the front bolster/pivot/lock bar on the Buck as that is the weak link in the chain of that knife. And I predict you'll eventually bust the blade of the blade of the Opinel through some prying test, as the handle and joint are much stronger than the blade, which is my primary point.

This isn't due to junk steel in the Opinel, btw. The Inox and Buck 420HC are essentially the same. If you want an Inox 9 to bust up, I'm happy to send it to you but you'll need to coordinate with Craytab as I've made the same offer to him.

Would love to see destructive comparison of an Opinel 9 or 10 vs a Buck 110 if you're willing to do it and document it.

I thought you were done.

I don't need to use a knife to know it is not the right tool for me. I held one and could tell immediately that it was completely inadequate for what I look for in a locking folder. Id rather have a non-locking folder than a poorly locking folder. I said that earlier but I guess you missed it. You may have missed this analogy as well so I will say it again. I don't need to taste dog poop to know it won't taste good, the smell alone is enough of an indicator.

Give it up man. You are wrong. You suggested the same knife in the same way you always do. It was a poor suggestion as it usually is. You misinformation needed correction because god for bid some person reads what you have written and thinks it is correct, which it is not.

If you really want to continue this debate I'd suggest starting a thread of your own. This back and forth has sufficiently derailed what was a good thread. Please stop.

And on that note, I will take the high road and not respond to you further in this thread as it is completely pointless.

 

[pinnah]

I am pretty sure we're going to get this thread locked, and dinged at this point, but I just want to ask you a simple question: Is the Opinel 10 a strong, indestructible knife like you were boasting early in the thread?

I never said "indestructible". All knives can be broken.

What I've said is that the Opinel 9/10 are the most durable folding knives I used for hard cutting, particularly in sandy/dirty environments (they can be used safely in pure friction mode).

In particular, IME they stand up to 1) hard cutting forces and 2) hard prying forces better than other folders I've used, including the Buck 110 and other traditional lock backs.

Happy to send you a #9 Inox to beat on.

You might be interested in this thread, in which I asked people in the trades to beat on a #8 Carbone. A guy eventually busted the blade by drilling PVC pipe with it. But nobody could break the joint of the knife, even by batoning.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/opinel-pass-around-walk-about.1097460/

Note, I no longer recommend using vaseline or mineral oil for maintaining the joints. Melting in paste/carpenters wax is much faster and lasts much longer.