The .22

J

jeffreyliu838

Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
332
Why is it that the .22 is said to be a "non defensive" round? I'd imagine a .22 being ideal for concealed carry. Small, huge capacity, and enough power for the ranges almost all confrontations will be at.

Your opinions?
 
Sorry, I'm from a "no guns for self defense" country, but why would you ever take a .22 when you could have a more capable caliber??!
The market now offers a huge variety of small guns from .32 to .45, so I don't see the advantage of a .22 gun in size anymore, if there ever was any.
 
Rimfire ammunition is notoriously unreliable. I have probably shot over 10K rounds of .22 ammo over the last couple years and have had duds from every brand regardless of cost.
My 9mm on the other hand has never had a malfunction of any sort.
 
most folks agree that if possible its better to have one of the service calibres (ie 9MM, 357SIG,.357mag,.40, or .45ACP, etc) vs a .22 because the sevice calibres possess greater power & can make up for bad shot placement and such, so the .22 is relegated by some into more of a sport category is suppose, a .22 will work but it requires more skill (or luck) when ya use it imho, & nowadays there are 9MM's around the size of .22s/.380s and they have equal or geater capacity, so imho the .22 certainly has zero advantages over pistols firing service calibre rounds and a lot of cons.

for example i have a walther PPk .22 which IIRC holds 8 rounds +1 a kahr PM9 holds 6 rounds +1 of a much more poerfull round, in about the same size package, i use a PPk for example because for me thats as small as i would wanna go unless i wanted something really small like a keltec P32 in which case i'd carry a P32, not a .22.
 
A 22 rimfire does not have the power to stop a confrontation decisively. While 22s/25s have killed a large number of people in gunfights it tends to do so after the fact. In many cases it will not stop an attacker from continuing and completing his assault on you before he succumbs to the damage the small round does. Add in the fact a very small 22 has little intimidation factors and you can see why it is not a good round for self defense.

In a gunfight your intent must be to immediately stop aggression towards yourself. This means using a firearm with enough power to stop an attacker immediately. A man with a knife can cover 21 feet in as little as 1.5 seconds as proven by the Tueler Drill. A 22, unless placed precisely to sever the neurological connections from brain to body, will not keep an attacker from reaching you. In many cases they haven't even slowed an attacker down. A larger round provides much more shock to the system and has a chance to break down the skeletal support system.

Unless you are an LEO you are only justified to shoot someone if your life is in immediate peril. Shooting to wound is not an option, you need to shoot and hit hard enough to stop the threat against your life and do so as fast as possible. The 22 rimfire simply isn't up to the job.
 
Each year the FBI puts out a huge tomb of crime statistics which breaks down crimes in all kinds of ways. Keep in mind that most self-defense shotings are initially classified as crimes. One way in which they sort shootings is by caliber of gun used. So, it is possible to see that each year about half of self-defense shootings are done with .22 caliber.

I often hear guys brag, "I won't be caught dead with anything less than a .45 1911." And that's probably true because he'll probably be found dead with no gun at all since he left the 1911 "iron tumor" at home that day since he didn't predict any risk that day and didn't want to lug a couple of extra pound around and keep a huge thing concealed.

When the proverbial you-know-what hits the fan, it's better the .22 in your pocket than the .45 1911 that's sitting in your safe.

If you actually will carry a big gun, then more power to you... pun intended. But, for many people, a smaller caliber can play an important and effective role.
 
jeffreyliu838 said:
Why is it that the .22 is said to be a "non defensive" round? I'd imagine a .22 being ideal for concealed carry. Small, huge capacity, and enough power for the ranges almost all confrontations will be at.
Click to expand...

"Imagine" is right.

Who says it has "enough power?"

I supposed a knitting needle has "enough power," if used properly, but that hardly recommends it as a proven defensive tool.

"Huge capacity?" What do you consider "huge?" Few .22 handguns hold more than 12, and usually it's 10. Several 9mm's hold 18. (yes, the Grendel .22 magnum has a 30 round magazine, but it's humongous, no longer made and woefully unreliable.)

This topic comes up quite often, it seems, usually by folks that simply do not understand ballistics and the effects of bullets on people.

Would a .22 on you be better than a .45 at home? Obviously, but why would you choose one on purpose?

If you cite size and convenience, then I'd respond back that a .32 or .380 of the same size and weight (or less) could be utilized instead.
 
Last edited:
.22 rimfires have a notorious reputation as killers. The little slug tends to penetrate well and take odd courses through the body. Hard for the surgeon to find all the perforated bits.
However, the fact that the individual may die at some time is of little concern to the person doing the shooting; he'd prefer that the bad guy quit doing whatever it was he was doing, like charging him with a baseball bat, or shooting back.
The .22 does not do particularly well at that job.
Better than nothing, of course; but for the same size of handgun one can generally obtain weapons in the .380 ACP range, which with proper ammunition has it all over the .22.
 
Gollnick said:
If you actually will carry a big gun, then more power to you... pun intended. But, for many people, a smaller caliber can play an important and effective role.
Click to expand...

There are small and light guns out there which are better suited for self-defense than a .22. I'd rather carry a Walther PPS (9mmLuger) instead of a P22 and the difference in size and weight is minimal.
 
This question has been asked for at least 100 years .The answer is the same , while 22 is capable of killing it's record as a stopper is very poor .Serious rounds start at the 9mm and include 357 mag,357 sig, 40S&W, 45 acp.
 
I have read that the .45 auto was developed because .38's were not stopping natives with knives attacking Marines. The Natives would invarialbly be killed, but not before they had killed their target. Whether true or not, the story does illustrate the difference between stopping power and killing power.

.22's have killing power. They lack stopping power.
 
Gollnick said:
Each year the FBI puts out a huge tomb of crime statistics which breaks down crimes in all kinds of ways. Keep in mind that most self-defense shotings are initially classified as crimes. One way in which they sort shootings is by caliber of gun used. So, it is possible to see that each year about half of self-defense shootings are done with .22 caliber.

I often hear guys brag, "I won't be caught dead with anything less than a .45 1911." And that's probably true because he'll probably be found dead with no gun at all since he left the 1911 "iron tumor" at home that day since he didn't predict any risk that day and didn't want to lug a couple of extra pound around and keep a huge thing concealed.

When the proverbial you-know-what hits the fan, it's better the .22 in your pocket than the .45 1911 that's sitting in your safe.

If you actually will carry a big gun, then more power to you... pun intended. But, for many people, a smaller caliber can play an important and effective role.
Click to expand...


agree the .22 will work & its better than nothing but imho there is no reason to go with a .22 when you can get 9MM's the size of walther PPk's and keltec P32's as small as any .22. a kahr PM9 or keltec P32 carry as easy as most any ,22 ya care to name and have enough power to maybe get ya outta trouble if ya need it.

point being why handicap yourself w/a .22 when looking for a small pistol when there are plenty of other calibres which will carry just as easy?

other than maybe a FA mini revolver .22(which is the very last pistol in the entire world i would want in an altercation) a keltec P32 is as small/lite as any, and ya can actually hit something with it, a feat difficult to accomplish (for me anyway) with a FA mini.
 
With the newest crops of mini 9mm's available I have even given up my P-32 in favor of a more powerful handgun. The Kel-Tec PF-9 is easily pocketable, works well in my Kramer Confident t-shirts, and functions perfectly. The only reason to carry a 22 would have to be medical, such as arthritis so bad a larger caliber is impossible to use.
 
I carry every minute I'm away from the house, except for the 40 or so hours I''m at work. (Carrying at work is a whole 'nuther topic)

I've carried a 5" 1911 steel framed gun (keep in mind that's three POUNDS of steel), a Makarov, and a Beretta 21A Bobcat.

The one that's carried far and away the most is the little Beretta. Why?

It's just part of the routine. Open desk drawer. Wallet, rear right pocket. Watch, left wrist. SAK, left front pocket. Check gun, pull mag, tip up barrel, load one, insert mag, front right pocket. Cell phone, keys, and I'm off.

The .45 and the 9mm Mak sit safe in the safe. The holsters sit in another drawer. The gunbelts sit in the closet.

And wherever I go, I carry a gun. And I sleep fine.
 
farmboy said:
I carry every minute I'm away from the house, except for the 40 or so hours I''m at work. (Carrying at work is a whole 'nuther topic)

I've carried a 5" 1911 steel framed gun (keep in mind that's three POUNDS of steel), a Makarov, and a Beretta 21A Bobcat.

The one that's carried far and away the most is the little Beretta. Why?

It's just part of the routine. Open desk drawer. Wallet, rear right pocket. Watch, left wrist. SAK, left front pocket. Check gun, pull mag, tip up barrel, load one, insert mag, front right pocket. Cell phone, keys, and I'm off.

The .45 and the 9mm Mak sit safe in the safe. The holsters sit in another drawer. The gunbelts sit in the closet.

And wherever I go, I carry a gun. And I sleep fine.
Click to expand...

How you sleep has nothing to do with how effective the round is for defense. Not to mention the fact that you carry it has much more to do with its dimunitive size and weight compared to your 3 pound hammer sitting in the gun safe, IMO.

What you are really saying is people will tend to carry the smallest lightest gun possible. The fact that you put comfort above safety doesn't show anything more than what your level of risk tolerance is.
 
I often carry one of these hiking, because I've found that the main trouble is with other dogs, running up and starting fights with mine. All I need is a noise maker to put the intruding dogs to flight. Of course the .22 mag is a good bit more than that! Probably the equal of a regular .22 long rifle out of a rifle length barrel, from the 4" tube. The smaller .22 doesn't have a lot of velocity out of the 1" barrel, but it's loud.

v6u1qd.jpg
[/IMG]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top