The All Important Rope Test

Uath

Uath

Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
703
Blade profile is everything. It's the art of the design and the eternal goal.
All knives can stab, if that is the sole purpose, get an ice-pick. It's better.
Knives were meant to cut. A thick, reinforced edge will hold up, but it's not a slicer. A thin razor edge is a slicer, but it might not hold up. The Holy Grail of knife design is an edge that will slice like a razor, but be tough enough to chop. A thin, flexible blade that is just as tough as a thick, inflexible blade.
To test the edge for toughness, chop into a copper pipe. If it passes that test, move on to the clothesline.

1) Get a length of polyester rope, the thin softer kind.
2) Make a loop in it with your weak hand.
3) Insert the knife. Pull it taught, don't try to cut, just pull it tight.
4) Now cut, see if it will with one pass. You might be surprised.

loop-knot-200x200.jpg
 
I usually use paracord instead of clothes line. What about chopping rope? Also, When is too flexible a hinderance in choping?
 
A long time ago there was a thread where someone was testing tons of different blades and steels cutting 1" rope in controlled conditions to test edge retention... Rope just seems to be a great cutting medium for blade tests.
 
Uath said:
The Holy Grail of knife design is an edge that will slice like a razor, but be tough enough to chop. A thin, flexible blade that is just as tough as a thick, inflexible blade.
Click to expand...
That might be Your Holy Grail but it isn't mine. Thanks for talking in absolutes, it doesn't come off as preachy or pompous at all...
:rolleyes:

I like a knife that has decent toughness that may even chip when "chopping" at a copper "pipe" (I think you meant tubing here), but has much higher abrasive wear resistance.
Think Maxamet or high hardness 4V

Why is this my grail?
Because I don't chop copper "pipe" all the time. Though I do cut through stuff that can abrade an edge through wear Much more frequently.
------
The Holy Grail of knives:
A) Doesn't Exist
B) Does exist and you are pursuing it
C) You own it

The problem is that what You think is the perfect knife, "Your Holy Grail", might be trash by my standards... But thanks for telling me what I should look for. I appreciate you thinking you know more about what I want and need than I do.
;):rolleyes:
 
I am completely in agreement for a thin blade-steel that has inherent toughness.
Big Chris, one of our finest craftsmen on the forum, is a strong proponent of thin blades on knives intended for slicing efficiency. Some of his blades are 3/32" stock and occasionally I see one advertised at a stock thickness in the area of 0.070". He seems to favor high hardness blades in 10V steel for a long-lasting edge and good toughness, although he loves 3V also for heavy-duty uses.
I am a casual user and flinch at the thought of purposely chopping into copper, although it's common in most electrical wiring. And, sometimes, we hit a steel staple when cutting through cardboard, so edge toughness is vital to prevent chipping.
 
Uath said:
Knives were meant to cut. A thick, reinforced edge will hold up, but it's not a slicer. A thin razor edge is a slicer, but it might not hold up. The Holy Grail of knife design is an edge that will slice like a razor, but be tough enough to chop.
Click to expand...

Hold up. Are knives meant to "cut" or to "chop"? o_O
 
marcinek said:
Hold up. Are knives meant to "cut" or to "chop"? o_O
Click to expand...
Not chop...
Do you remember in his other post where he talks about knives not being needed to split wood at a camp, and that saws are used?

Why would you ask such a thing?
 
Uath said:
To test the edge for toughness, chop into a copper pipe. If it passes that test, move on to the clothesline.

1) Get a length of polyester rope, the thin softer kind.
2) Make a loop in it with your weak hand.
3) Insert the knife. Pull it taught, don't try to cut, just pull it tight.
4) Now cut, see if it will with one pass. You might be surprised.
Click to expand...

And I'm sorry, but this I'm not quite following this either.

You are saying a knife designed for chopping isn't a great slicer, yes? And vice versa.

That's "geometry," not edge retention. I'm not seeing what this series of tests would establish or demonstrate. o_O
 
NJBillK said:
Not chop...
Do you remember in his other post where he talks about knives not being needed to split wood at a camp, and that saws are used?

Why would you ask such a thing?
Click to expand...
Here, I went and fetched it for you Uath:
Uath said:
I've always wondered how you have all these saw-cut logs in camp, but somehow need a knife to split them
Click to expand...
 
Sonnydaze said:
I am completely in agreement for a thin blade-steel that has inherent toughness.
Big Chris, one of our finest craftsmen on the forum, is a strong proponent of thin blades on knives intended for slicing efficiency. Some of his blades are 3/32" stock and occasionally I see one advertised at a stock thickness in the area of 0.070".
Click to expand...

Gavko has a youtube video where he takes a super thin zero ground slicer and chops through aluminum cable with it - it didn't suffer any damage. His concept is that a thinner blade has less resistance when cutting and therefor wears less when cut with. Kinda the same idea as poking a needle through clothing being easier than poking a sharp pencil through it. The smaller the area contacting the material, the less the material will grab at it.

For proper blade use, thinner is always better. The only reason to have a thick blade is if you think bad things might happen to your blade - either accidentally or intentionally.
 
I'm about to take some INFI to a copper water pipe to *ahem* test the edge for toughness...

IMG_20170825_145819_edit.jpg

Uath Uath : Am I doing this the right way?
 
There's an old Nordic proverb: "Never praise a blade until it's tried, or a day until it's done."

I just have made totems out of knives, worshiped them and then:

1) Had a 1/4" 1095 pry bar with three bevels to the edge. You couldn't slice a tomato with Jesus praying for it, let alone cutting a looped line. Forget it. Sharpen it all you want.
2) Had a beautiful hand-forged knife that had the tip fold over like a &^%^$% fishhook just from sticking it into a log
3) Burrs, fold-overs, chips, and broken tips galore, just drop it on a tile floor

I don't do that anymore. Test the thing. See if it's worthy to carry. If a knife's edge won't hold up to chopping a copper tube then it's no good. If the edge folds, it's too soft, and if it chips, it's too hard. Tempered steel should cut copper with no damage. Forget wood.

Stick it in tough wood and pry to both sides. Pry out that divot. Did the tip break? Did it bend over? There's no excuse.

Loop the rope and cut it. Slice a tomato into potato chips and then chop an oak log in half.

Now is something worthy to carry.
 
I may have picked up on a completely different thing in your op, but have you ever heard of sheep's foot blades, and one armed jack blades ?
You said all knives can stab, but a real sheep's foot blades and one armed jack blades absolutely cannot stab.
You also said that a knife needs to be able to slice and chop ( just like you're icepick statement, of you want to chop get an axe or hatchet )
But folders aren't for chopping and you didn't say you were specifically talking about just fixed blades.

I may be nitpicking, but those 2 statements killed the whole topic for me, especially since I have no clue what stabbing has to do with cutting rope.
 
In my experience a powerful tanto design have the best chance against copper.
As a side note I was once kicked out of the AG Russell store when I started testing the knives with a copper pipe. In their defense it was their pipe & I don't think they were done using it.
 
NJBillK said:
That might be Your Holy Grail but it isn't mine. Thanks for talking in absolutes, it doesn't come off as preachy or pompous at all...
:rolleyes:

I like a knife that has decent toughness that may even chip when "chopping" at a copper "pipe" (I think you meant tubing here), but has much higher abrasive wear resistance.
Think Maxamet or high hardness 4V

Why is this my grail?
Because I don't chop copper "pipe" all the time. Though I do cut through stuff that can abrade an edge through wear Much more frequently.
------
The Holy Grail of knives:
A) Doesn't Exist
B) Does exist and you are pursuing it
C) You own it

The problem is that what You think is the perfect knife, "Your Holy Grail", might be trash by my standards... But thanks for telling me what I should look for. I appreciate you thinking you know more about what I want and need than I do.
;):rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Definitely, I like my blades as thin and slicy as possible because all I do is cut stuff and not chop.
Not sure what my Grail knife would be but chopping ability is definitely not a characteristic Im looking for.
 
Uath said:
Slice a tomato into potato chips and then chop an oak log in half.

Now is something worthy to carry.
Click to expand...
First off, if this imaginary knife can turn Tomato into Potato Chips, then it can perform miracles and can make you a multi-millionaire.

Secondly, how thick is an oak "log"?
2", 6", 27" in diameter?

Each of the above will have a profound effect on the condition of the edge.
-----
Instead of talking in riddles and asking questions to answer questions, why don't you try answering some of the questions posed to you. This way we can all have some semblance of an idea about where you are coming from and what you are talking about...
 
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