The allure of an automatic watch

[hwyhobo]

As I have stated in other posts, I am certainly no watch maven. Therefore, any possible attempts at humor in this post are not meant to offend anyone, just trying to understand what I see as incomprehensible to me fixation with automatics.

Okay, so what is it? What is the allure of a self-winding watch? They're not really self-winding, of course, you do have to wear them day and night and move your arm to wind them. What is the advantage that they have over conventional, battery-powered watches? Considering that an average battery lasts at least one year, is it for those occasional trips to the forest for those year+ hikes? And the big worry is that after leaving the forest we should not be late for the important appointment? No, seriously, what is it? On top of it, if one puts it down for over one day, they need to be reset. If we are in the forest for a year, what do we use to reset them? Stars? Sun?

Short of a nuclear confrontation on a global scale I just can't find a scenario where an automatic would buy me anything over a regular watch, and in most cases it is a liability.

So what is it? Please educate me. Maybe there is an automatic in my future yet.

 

[Bob W]

Are you refering to the Kinetic watches, where they automatically wind when you're moving?

I don't have one of those, but I do have a Eco-Drive solar watch. When you stash it in the drawer and the primary battery drains, then the watch goes into sleep mode. Expose it to light again and the watch turns itself back on and resets the arms to the correct time. You do not have to reset the watch every time it's in the dark. I assume the kinetic watches work in a similar manner?

-Bob

 

[hwyhobo]

Are you refering to the Kinetic watches, where they automatically wind when you're moving?

Yes, I am.

I assume the kinetic watches work in a similar manner?

It is my understanding that when it winds down, it stops, and then you have to reset it. Just like any other purely mechanical watch. There is no battery backup, after all.

 

[TNRat]

I wear a Seiko Kinetic that I received as a gift. I did not know how I would like the movement until after I had worn the watch for a couple of years.

I can now say I love the watch. I think the movement is neat, and would not like it as much were it battery operated.

Mine has something, a transistor perhaps, that actually stores energy for a period of time after you take the watch off.

I can take mine off on Friday and not put it back on until Monday and it is still good to go.

Sometimes I shake my wrist in such a way that I can feel the movement moving, but this is not necessary. It takes care of itself just by being worn.

If you like batteries then have at it. I used to work with a guy that wore some type of Seiko for many years before having to replace the battery.

I am a huge fan of Casio G Shocks, but the battery only lasts me for 4 years.

 

[SpyderJon]

Well, personally I just find automatic watches more interesting, although I'm looking at getting a hand-wind model. I'm certainly no maven either, but I do appreciate quality. There's a precision in even the cheapest automatic movement that you don't get with a quartz. Quartz is for when you're either going to be knocking around somewhere- like a forest- or you're just anal about what time it is.

I tend to think of the quartz vs. automatic thing in watches the same way I think about production vs. custom in knives. A quartz is like a production knife, and an automatic is like a custom. Quartz is like production knives because they're strictly tools. Even the ones that have some artistic or design flourish would never be mistaken for something that was custom. You buy a quartz because you want to know what time it is, just like you buy production knives because you don't care who made it you just want something that cuts. And, just like you can get high quality productions, you can get high quality quartz watches. It doesn't make them artistic though.

An Automatic watch is a thing of precision. It has precision cut gears and cogs that allow it to do exactly what a quartz watch will do, just in a different way. Also, just like you can get all ranges of custom knives (beginner to master), you can also get all ranges of automatics (again, from low to high end). Also, like a custom, automatics are much more dependent upon the company putting them together, and how well they do their job, than quartz watches. You're also paying for certain levels of hand-finishing done to the movement with autos.

There's an @$$ for every seat, and your's might fit nicely in a quartz, but I prefer autos. Nothing wrong with either choice as far as I'm concerned. And I believe they both have their place in the world. After all, I'm not going to go sky-diving with a Platinum Patek Pillipe, and I wouldn't wear a G-Shock to a $1000-a-plate dinner either.

Oh, and if you have to reset your auto after leaving it off the wrist for a day OR you have to change the battery of your quartz every year, you have purchased REALLY crappy watches. G-shocks can come with 10-year batteries, and even low-end Seiko autos have a typical 40+ hour power reserve.

 

[hwyhobo]

There's a precision in even the cheapest automatic movement that you don't get with a quartz.

Wait, from everything I have been reading, it is almost impossible to get the same accuracy with an automatic as with a good quartz.

Quartz is for when you're either going to be knocking around somewhere- like a forest- or you're just anal about what time it is.

But a lot of beautiful dress watches are quartz. Are you perhaps confusing quartz for digital? I am not talking about watches that display numbers on cheap grey LCDs. I am talking about nice watches that use quartz inside and are battery powered.

 

[hwyhobo]

I wouldn't wear a G-Shock to a $1000-a-plate dinner either.

Would you wear a Concord, Cartier, or Omega?

I don't think it's the movement inside that would dictate the choice, but the style of the watch, no? I would hardly compare Concord to a G-Shock, yet inside of both you may find a quartz movement.

 

[T.K.C.]

I have a TAG Heuer Automatic watch that I love. I dunno, I juts like automatic watches. I just like watches period.

 

[mete]

Mine is a Junghans solar powered watch. I does have to have a certain amount of light .

 

[SpyderJon]

Where to begin...

Perhaps I was a bit harsh- to make a point- but not confused in what I said. Please, also, remember that this is just my opinion, and YMMV.

By "precision" I'm talking about the manufacture of the gears and cogs that go into making a functioning auto. NO, you don't get the same accuracy with an auto you get with a quartz. Forget about a "good" quartz, a $20 Timex will beat out a $100k auto for accuracy every day of the week. That was never my point. Precision never referred to time-keeping, but rather the hand-finishing that goes into them.

I'm also not confusing Quartz with digital. I HATE digital watches. I spent a lot of time as a child learning how to read a clock correctly, and I refuse to go back to a digital watch- ever. Yes, there are a LOT of nice looking "dress", "fashion", and "luxury" quartz watches out there. Probably the most accurate watch I know of (a Grand Seiko) is even a quartz. I still don't like quartz over auto.

I wouldn't compare a G-shock to a Concord. Like I said in my first post, you can get quartz watches at all ends of the spectrum (from low to high end). This would be the case here. I didn't say you could compare all quartz watches to each other based on fashion. You can't. A plastic case G-shock will never look as nice as a gold or platinum cased Cartier. Yet, if you're talking about the "allure of the automatic," you have to have a passion for autos. I do. Fashion quartz watches fit in, and there are doubtless beautiful examples of quartz watches. However, if you compare watches appropriately, then the disparity isn't so great. For example: compare a G-shock to a Seiko 5 military auto, and that's appropriate. I'd take the Seiko. Compare a Breitling Colt SuperQuartz to a Seawolf, and THAT would be appropriate. I'd take the Seawolf.

Hwyhobo asked: "Would you wear a Concord, Cartier, or Omega?"

Well, as to the first two, no. Not on any account, as they just don't appeal to me. As to Omega, I LOVE Omega, but would still take an auto or a Speedy Pro over a quartz from them. They're the same company, but not the same class in my mind.

To each his own. The question was "what is the allure of the automatic" and I answered with what is so alluring about it to me. Like I said, there's an @$$ for every seat, and some find a quartz comfortable. For me, I'd take a Seiko 5 Military auto over a Cartier quartz any day of the week. Unless, of course, it was my intention to flip the Cartier in order to get a better auto.

 

[Larry S.]

I AM a watch maven but two things keep me from tearing into this thread...
#1 SpyderJon is the only poster so far that appears to have the knowledge to understand more than the most rudimentary of explanations.
#2 I just got off work and am not in the mood to suffer f**ls at present...maybe later.

No offense meant in general.....only horologically.

 

[hwyhobo]

Perhaps I was a bit harsh

Not at all. I want straight answers, and I don't mind strong opinions at all.

By "precision" I'm talking about the manufacture of the gears and cogs that go into making a functioning auto.

Understood. That's where I was confused.

I'm also not confusing Quartz with digital. I HATE digital watches.

I cannot say I hate them, I just find them hard to read and in general unappealing.

To each his own. The question was "what is the allure of the automatic" and I answered with what is so alluring about it to me.

You did, and I appreciate it. You have an appreciation for a fine mechanical instrument. I just want something that:

1. I like visually
2. Will keep good time
3. Is made of metal (case and band)

What's inside doesn't come into play, not even remotely.

 

[SpyderJon]

I just want something that:

1. I like visually
2. Will keep good time
3. Is made of metal (case and band)

What's inside doesn't come into play, not even remotely.

I can't argue with that. I applaud you for saying so. Many people in your position would merely try and put down people into autos, instead of just asking your question. Autos may not be for you, but I give a :thumbup: :thumbup: for your attempt at understanding those who prefer autos.

I would say that I just caution people that "fashion" watches are just that: fashion. It doesn't matter who's name is on the dial, or what the case is. Pretty much, to a piece, they're just plain overpriced junk. Think of "gilding a turd." There are nice quartz watches, but don't let yourself pay a premium because there's a "brand" name-or even gold- on the outside.

Oh, and for those that have eco-drive watches, I really do like some of those. I had one of the first generation Seiko kinetic watches, and I'd never own another like it- including the eco-drive. Mine suffered from the capacitor being bad I'm sure, as the thing just wouldn't hold a charge to save its life. I didn't know anything about watches at that time, and just thought "Its over $170, it MUST be a good watch!" Oh, the days of blissful ignorance. I got better performance out of my $50 Seiko 5 military than I ever did out of that Kinetic watch. Sorry for rambling....

 

[GarageBoy]

Don't confuse kinetic with automatic..
Kinetic= charges up a capacitor
Auto= winds up a mainspring

 

[m_calingo]

The question posed is like asking what the appeal is for pocket wathches?? Pocket watches seem like a throwback from two previous centuries. They require an extra motion to extricate them from one's pocket in order to read the time, and they take up extra space in one's pocket.

And yet, despite all the above, there must be some sort of appeal for them, because they are still being made, which implies there is still a market for them. So it is with auto-winders.

In terms of practicality, re: self-winders vs. battery powered watches, I favor the battery drive. Depending on the battery in a battery drive watch, it will require changing every year, or three years. Auto winders don't need battery changes, but their clockwork mechanism does require regular maintenance to make sure everything is running well and lubed. There is an additional issue, in that folks who collect self-winders will sometimes get these machines that will wind the auto-winder watches to keep their springs topped up. Once upon a time when watches didn't have calendar functions, it wasn't a big deal to take an unwound watch, wind it up and set the correct time, and that was it. However, if you have half a dozen or more self-winders, it can be a chore to scroll thru the calendar to make sure the date is set correctly unless you have a system to keep your collection running to keep the date current.

Today, one can run to the local Walmart or Kmart and pick up a cheap (under $20) digital watch that can gain or lose only a minute of time over the span of a month. Serious accuracy is no longer an issue. It's not like your average rich guy can say his super expensive quartz watch is more accurate than the average joe's Timex.

So, IMO, part of the appeal for a self-winder is the notion that one has some vestige of a carefully hand-crafted product riding on the wrist, not something assembled by a factory robot. Nothing wrong with that.

One might as well ask why one person drives a Mercedes when a Ford Taurus will get them to where they are going just as well. Or why someone carries a Sebenza instead of well...you know.

In my own case, I'm very happy using a quartz driven Seiko chronograph (the type with the sub dials) for dress up. It doesn't even have a date, so I don't need to deal with changing the date every time a month goes from "30" to "1" the next day. Really, the only thing I need to adjust is for the change from standard to daylight savings time. The rest of the time, I just use a Casio digital watch, and sometimes I don't even need that anymore because the cell phone I carry has a built in time display and alarm as well.

 

[SpyderJon]

Today, one can run to the local Walmart or Kmart and pick up a cheap (under $20) digital watch that can gain or lose only a minute of time over the span of a month. Serious accuracy is no longer an issue. It's not like your average rich guy can say his super expensive quartz watch is more accurate than the average joe's Timex.

So, IMO, part of the appeal for a self-winder is the notion that one has some vestige of a carefully hand-crafted product riding on the wrist, not something assembled by a factory robot. Nothing wrong with that.

One might as well ask why one person drives a Mercedes when a Ford Taurus will get them to where they are going just as well. Or why someone carries a Sebenza instead of well...you know.

Very well put. Basically THAT'S my point. That is, What he said!

Also, true that one wouldn't want to confuse an auto with a kinetic. I think, though, that the eco-drives are a form of kinetic because the sun charges a capacitor that keeps the mainspring wound. Instead, the Seiko kinetics use a rotor (instead of the sun) which charges a capacitor. The Citizen version is MUCH more practical if you have a watch you don't wear that often, but it still has capacitors that I'm not willing to trust. Sad, really, as I think the Eco-Zilla is the BOMB for the most part! I'd still want an auto or handwind, though.

 

[Blue Jays]

 

[hwyhobo]

The question posed is like asking what the appeal is for pocket wathches??

Not at all. Pocket watches are completely different style watches. Automatics and quartz could be exactly the same watch (see Omega Seamaster), and no one could tell the difference unless he knew what's inside. Therefore, there must be a different motivation, not purely stylistic.

And yet, despite all the above, there must be some sort of appeal for them, because they are still being made, which implies there is still a market for them.

Clearly, and that's why I asked my question. I didn't doubt there was an interest in them, I was just curious why. SpyderJon stated his case, and I respect that and understand it, even though I may not share the same motivation.

So, IMO, part of the appeal for a self-winder is the notion that one has some vestige of a carefully hand-crafted product riding on the wrist, not something assembled by a factory robot.

Very well, we have another reason then. I can appreciate it and understand it as well. I may even share it to some degree, but not to the point where it would overcome what I perceive as inconveniences of it.

 

[hwyhobo]

One might as well ask why one person drives a Mercedes when a Ford Taurus will get them to where they are going just as well.

This is a wrong analogy. See Omega Seamaster. Both automatic and quartz. Therefore, the proper analogy would be Mercedes with hand-assembled engine and parts (assume for a moment no pollution) vs. robot-produced electric motor and components. Both cars would have similar acceleration, handling, and sound, with the electric being a touch more precise, and the mechanical requiring occasional maintenance. On the outside you couldn't tell the difference. You would have to open the hood to find out. Now we have the right analogy.

 

[Ron Andersen]

So what is it? Please educate me. Maybe there is an automatic in my future yet.

So...what's the allure of a $5,000 custom knife? Maybe one is in my future yet.


I'm hooked on automatics......