The allure of an automatic watch

hwyhobo said:
Please explain it for the initiated. When I was a kid, Omega was considered (among people I listened to) the watch to depend on, but then I started hearing more and more about Rolex, until it seemed the whole world considered Rolex to be the epitome of a watch (or was it all marketing?). I never found them visually appealing (or any of their clones), but then the new Omega models I do not find too appealing either.
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Everything is marketing. There are much higher priced and better watches than Rolex, but Rolex has done a great job of being the best of the first tier of high end watches. Also Rolex makes their own movements. Omega, Breitling, Tag, Sinn, etc, use either ETA or Valljoux movements and finish them to a different level depending on watch. The Omega line is still comprised of many of their older styles that look exactly like thye did in the 60's. The Speedmaster Professional is the original watch worn on the Moon. The movement has been upgraded, but it looks virtually identical. The Seamaster is also pretty much the same.


Now, come on, you find changing a battery a pain (it takes 10 minutes at any watch vendor), but you have no problem with your watch being cleaned and serviced every few years?
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Many better quartz watches, especially if "water proof" require a trip back to the repair facility for battery replacement.
 
tortoise said:
For you Pilot. :) http://www.timezone.com/library/archives/archives0099

But that doesn't change the fact that if you want reliability, durability and accuracy in an automatic watch, Rolex is among the best. :thumbup:
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HA! Thanks Tortoise. :)

I don't hate Rolex at all, but its been mass marketed so its now just a status symbol. I'd rather wear something that nobody knows about. However, a vintage Rolex 5513 is something I'd like to have. For the most part:

Rolex = bullet proof.
 
Back to the "allure of the automatic watch" - for me it is because I am an 'analog man'. This may be an age thing, but I like the mechanical nature of the auto winder. I bought an Omega Seamaster Pro Diver's Chrono a few years ago when I retired. I just liked it. The the tank I took to RVN had an analog computer that actually had different metal cams loaded in it to represent the superelevation requirements of the ammo that you selected. It would buzz and turn gears and drive shafts that would move the main gun. Amazing! All the cars I owned/work on when I was young were totally mechanical in nature. If I were born in the digital age I might think differently.:D
 
Pilot1 said:
Omega, Breitling, Tag, Sinn, etc, use either ETA or Valljoux movements and finish them to a different level depending on watch.
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Live and learn. I didn't know that.

The Omega line is still comprised of many of their older styles that look exactly like thye did in the 60's.
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I looked carefully through their line for the one my grandfather wore - big, clear face, dress watch (though a tad thick), leather strap. I couldn't find anything close to it anymore. It was old back then, though, so it may have been out of production for quite a while.

Many better quartz watches, especially if "water proof" require a trip back to the repair facility for battery replacement.
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No kidding? I thought most watch sellers with minimal equipment for repair were capable of taking care of that. Oh, well, this is an education for me.
 
hwyhobo said:
I looked carefully through their line for the one my grandfather wore - big, clear face, dress watch (though a tad thick), leather strap. I couldn't find anything close to it anymore. It was old back then, though, so it may have been out of production for quite a while.
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Having looked carefully through the Omega "history" pages, I think I found it. It was a 1960 De Ville.

hwyhobo said:
It's quite possible, though, that if I ever retire, I will get an automatic watch. Different lifestyle, different accessories.
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Having looked some more through the modern models I did find one I would like for my retirement present. ;) Here it is: Seamaster Aqua Terra Railmaster Chronometer.

Oh, speaking of which, how often does one have to replace a leather strap in a watch like that, and how much does it cost?
 
Hi hwyhobo-

Yes, don't just let any jewelry store hack get his grubby hands all over your quartz watch. The correct method when getting a new battery is to change the rubber seals, new battery, and then pressure-test the entire watch for correct water-resistance. It is a job that should be done by a professional familiar with your brand of watch and the correct seals.

~ Blue Jays ~
 
Pilot1 said:
I don't hate Rolex at all, but its been mass marketed so its now just a status symbol.
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Glad you liked the link.

-See but that's the point I want to make for the uninitiated (not meaning you.) Rolex is not just a status symbol. They're arguably the mosy accurate and durable mechanical watches made today. Many watches are far better finished, but far less robust. Others just as strong, but display much less long term accuracy, and so on.

I've made this analogy elsewhere: one can buy a Mercedes Benz because it's a status symbol, tells the world that you're successful and attracts the opposite sex. You can put flashy wheels on it, and TVs in the headrests if you want. You could even wear the hood ornament around your neck. It's entirely your option and MB will happily sell you the car.

At the same time, a huge percentage of the world's taxis, especially the third world's, laboring in brutal conditions, on unpaved roads and without service, for hundreds of thousands of miles, are Mercedes Benz.

Two people can buy the very same product for completely different reasons, and they can both be vaild.

Get that Sub, old or new, and you'll know why you did. :cool:
 
One more question - is it true you are not supposed to adjust time on a mechanical watch by turning it back, only forward? I was told that when I was young. Was it ever the case? If it was, is it still? I do believe I broke one watch that way by adjusting it back and forth (I travel quite a bit), or perhaps it was just a lousy watch.
 
In general, you shouldn't adjust either the time or the date on a mechanical watch in the time frame +-2hrs around midnight.

The way it was explained to me: The date-flipping mechanism takes about that long to engage/disengage around midnight and screwing with the date around then could either/or confuse it such that you'd miss the next date switch, or grind something together that shouldn't be ground together.

As for your question:

I would assert that there is virtually no one in this world could rationally, scientifically, justify an automatic over a battery quartz movement.

The technical exceptions:
(a) You don't have access to the button cell batteries for over 3-5 years at a time (or 5-8 years without a capacitor replacement for a kinetic, or 2-3 months without light for a solar-powered)
(b) You work very often with high-EMF/EMP devices and can't take off your watch

Downsides of mechanical/automatic movements:
(a) Susceptibility to impact and magnetic fields
(b) Far less consistent accuracy
(c) Reliant on more frequent input to keep running
(d) Less quanta available in a chronograph (Maximally, 1/10th s vs. 1/100ths)
(e) Maintenance is MUCH more expensive than buying a new battery (should you elect to have it done).

I would hazard both are equally vulnerable to water.

So.... what do I wear? A Valjoux 7750 at work, a Cal. 3135 for events, a G-shock for when I go swimming, and a Casio Protrek for when I'm outdoors and hiking.

Why?

It isn't like you have more control like with a manual transmission. It isn't like you have greater periods between maintenance like with the powder high-carbon stainless steels. It isn't like you have more flexibility in your performance envelope like with differentially harded carbon steel. It doesn't require less effort like with a fountain pen. It isn't like you have a better image like with medium format. It isn't more comfortable like with a custom suit or shoes. It doesn't look prettier like diamond.

In fact, I would probably suggest that both are the result of similar amounts of machining in production; I doubt that ETA really has each movement handmade these days. I'm sure there's some more in the assembly, but each part is probably machined out.

To be honest, I like the elitism of the automatic movement. I like knowing that it's something different; something more. It makes a nice ticking sound. It "feels" alive on my wrist. I like that it's mechanical instead of electronic. There are no circuits and no battery.

It relies on me to be alive.

So... If you like it... you like it.

What else can one say?

-j
 
hwyhobo said:
Oh, speaking of which, how often does one have to replace a leather strap in a watch like that, and how much does it cost?
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It depends on how much you use it, how much you sweat, how dirty you get, how often you clean it, and whether you're just a stinky kind of guy.

Most people suggest that a lifespan of a leather strap is 1-2 years, but of course, there are exceptions.

Me, I like buying a bunch of different styles and colors. A nice, non-brand aftermarket strap is probably in the $20 to $60 range. You don't necessarily have to buy the OEM $300-$800 strap when the one it comes with dies.

-j
 
biogon said:
A nice, non-brand aftermarket strap is probably in the $20 to $60 range. You don't necessarily have to buy the OEM $300-$800 strap when the one it comes with dies.
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Thanks. Much to my chagrin I did check the prices of Omega straps and bracelets. Wow.
 
hwyhobo said:
Thanks. Much to my chagrin I did check the prices of Omega straps and bracelets. Wow.
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If you think those are bad, please don't look at the bracelet prices of higher-end watches.

It's not uncommon to see the MSRP of a steel bracelet to top $1,5k. The problem is that bracelets tend to be specifically designed and fitted to a specific model, whereas straps are "open source".

It's not surprising that third-party aftermarket bands can be much, much cheaper and give equal or superior performance.
 
Turned a profit on a knife sale at BLADE - 1st high-dollar (to me) watch purchase incoming - Hamilton Khaki Navy. My friend, who is a horologist, has one and he loves it. Also helps I am getting it through his discount at about half off. Added bonus is that he can work on ETA movements with his eyes closed.
 
hwyhobo said:
I am curious if there is a connection between wearing an automatic/quartz watch and driving a stick shift. Anyone?
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My EDW is a Seiko Orange Monster (on a Freestyle velcro strap), and my car has a manual transmission...

so for me, the answer is yes, I prefer manual transmissions, I like automatic *watches*, yet I hate, loathe, and despise sludgebox automatic transmissions, if a transmission does not have a foot-operated clutch pedal, it's not a manual (manumatics are still sludgeboxes and still, IMHO, suck...)
 
Rolex is not just a status symbol.
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Interesting thread! I have beaten & abused my 2 Rolex's since 1980 or so. I only own one at a time, and the replacement is only because the previous one was no longer with me. My current Sea-Dweller will hopefully stay with me another 25 years.
 
1. More shock resistant.
2. Unaffected by electromagnetic pulse.
3. Work in temperatures low enough to stop electric watches.
4. Antimagnetic.
5. Work off muscle power. Not the chemicals in batteries.
6. Gasgets/seals do not need to be periodically breached, possibly compromising their integrity.

All this adds up to the most reliable type of watch, assuming it is well made. This reliability is compromised but not overcome by quartz' better accuracy.

But most people will do fine with quartz movements under the conditions they encounter. They do not need mechanical autos.

However, divers and people with occupations that take them into isolated parts of the world for extended periods (like naturalists) often prefer mechanical autos.

Personally, although I have no practical need for a mechanical auto, I like them for the independence they represent.
 
I went through this a few years ago and wound up with a Seiko Diver's automatic, which I like very much. Yes, it's not as accurate as a good quartz movement and it might stop if I don't wear it for a few days but it has something undefinable that pleases me to own and wear. When I was making my decision, this quote (best I can remember it) did it for me:

Wearing a quartz watch is like having an appliance, an automatic is like having a pet.

And for the record, I am a mechanical engineer, ride a Harley Davidson and my truck has a manual transmission.:cool:
 
I'm a big fan of Auto's. Are they any better a good quartz, IMO not really but that's not the point.

I like mechanical aspect of it and all that associated with it.

As for the which one is best, I'll leave that to others. Kinda like the Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge argument.
 
The accuracy argument has been gone over, so I'll just say....if you really need to know the exact time, look at your cellphone ;)

One thing that I don't believe was mentioned is if a part in a mechanical watch breaks it can be fixed. A good watchmaker can make the part from scratch if need be. Individual parts in a quartz watch aren't replaced, they just throw in a new module.

I like having something on my wrist that has a history going back hundreds of years. In some ways, wearing a mechanical watch is an anachronism in our fast paced, instant gratification, "I have to have the newest and the fastest" society. I don't really see that as a bad thing.

It's also been said that a mechanical watch has a 'soul', and quartz doesn't.
 
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