The Ax Poll

[David Martin]

I am inquiring about information on the poll of an ax, in general, is it heat treated?
If you have this stated in a brochure or catalog and can post it that would be great.
I have thought that if the edge was heat treated the poll would be too. Thanks, DM

 

[Goose 7279]

In general polls are not heat treated but there are axes with hardened polls like rafting/cedar, killing, construction and mauls

 

[FLINT77]

yup,

generally if a poll is hardened, it will be chamfered, but not always - and then there is the plumb national pattern which has a chamfered poll but is not hardened. I think traditionally, axes with hardened polls were mostly either rafting axes or miners axes.

apparently council used to harden the polls on some of their axes, but stopped about a decade (?) ago.

here is a picture of my rafting axe head to show what I mean by chamfered.

 

[Square_peg]

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/miners-axe-rafting-axe-construction-axe.1305893/

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Only certain patterns of axes like rafting/construction axes have hardened polls by default. On more common patterns it was only done on top-shelf models or by special request from a hardware store ordering a batch (depending on time period we're talking about)

 

[David Martin]

So, often only the bit got quenched in oil or water, maybe up to near the eye. Then placed in a rack and allowed to cool. Thus, the edge was 3 points higher
hardness than the poll, except on special orders and certain models.? DM

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

So, often only the bit got quenched in oil or water, maybe up to near the eye. Then placed in a rack and allowed to cool. Thus, the edge was 3 points higher
hardness than the poll, except on special orders and certain models.? DM

The bit would be wayyyyyy more than 3 points harder. According to data I'm pulling up, fully annealed 1060, as an example, is only 88 on the Rockwell B scale, which converts to a mere 7 on the C scale. So closer to 30 or 40-something points harder.

But yes, the norm was unhardened polls, except in models like half hatchets/roofing hatchets with true hammer polls or rafting/construction axes, which had a dedicated striking face as a deliberate and pronounced feature.

 

[jblyttle]

yup,

generally if a poll is hardened, it will be chamfered, but not always - and then there is the plumb national pattern which has a chamfered poll but is not hardened. I think traditionally, axes with hardened polls were mostly either rafting axes or miners axes.

apparently council used to harden the polls on some of their axes, but stopped about a decade (?) ago.

here is a picture of my rafting axe head to show what I mean by chamfered.

My experience is that the hatchet sized heads, generally BSA labeled, are not hardened but the full sized ones generally are.

This can't be universally true, but in general only rafting heads, larger Nationals and a particular style of Craftsman large hatchet have hardened polls. This is excluding any type of carpenter head and old hand forged hewing type heads, which also are generally hardened. But the vast majority of 20th century heads are not.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I was under the impression that only some early large Nationals had hardened polls and that the majority of them weren't.

 

[Agent_H]

My experience is that the hatchet sized heads, generally BSA labeled, are not hardened but the full sized ones generally are.

This can't be universally true, but in general only rafting heads, larger Nationals and a particular style of Craftsman large hatchet have hardened polls. This is excluding any type of carpenter head and old hand forged hewing type heads, which also are generally hardened. But the vast majority of 20th century heads are not.

I was under the impression that only some early large Nationals had hardened polls and that the majority of them weren't.

I had wondered in passing if the earlier Plumb National “Patent Applied For” ones were hardened.

 

[jblyttle]

I was under the impression that only some early large Nationals had hardened polls and that the majority of them weren't.

I actually don't know the answer. I hadn't considered that age might factor into it, and they are tough to date. I see the small ones with some poll deformation but don't recall seeing that on the full sized ones. But then I can't recall ever seeing a chipped one either...

 

[Agent_H]

I actually don't know the answer. I hadn't considered that age might factor into it, and they are tough to date. I see the small ones with some poll deformation but don't recall seeing that on the full sized ones. But then I can't recall ever seeing a chipped one either...

Maybe we will never really know. Here is a 3.2 Plumb National that I've posted before but it shows abuse to the poll.
Now, what can be made from it... I'm still unsure.

 

[David Martin]

This seems so strange when the oil container is likely deep enough to take the entire head-- but instead just swish the first inch or two... It doesn't seem like
a cost saving measure. Instead a recipe for a lower quality product. DM

 

[Agent_H]

This seems so strange when the oil container is likely deep enough to take the entire head-- but instead just swish the first inch or two... It doesn't seem like
a cost saving measure. Instead a recipe for a lower quality product. DM

I might be off on this but I think the premise is to harden the bit (or poll as well) while leaving the steel around the eye softer to absorb shock. If the whole head is hardened then there is a risk of breaking.

 

[David Martin]

Agent, the poll on your Plumb is abused. Was it not hardened? DM

 

[Agent_H]

Agent, the poll on your Plumb is abused. Was it not hardened? DM

That's a good question David. Maybe some degree or maybe the bevels just keep the chipping at bay longer?

 

[David Martin]

I might be off on this but I think the premise is to harden the bit (or poll as well) while leaving the steel around the eye softer to absorb shock. If the whole head is hardened then there is a risk of breaking.

I see. But is there a 'sweet spot' where the poll is hardened some to take a little use? DM

 

[David Martin]

My 50's Hults Bruk 4 lb. easily endures some hits on the poll and it doesn't have near the thickness of metal that the Council 6 lb. does. Whereas with the Council I'm noticing some mushrooming? Did I just get lucky in finding the Hults?
Here I'll get a photo up. DM

 

[jblyttle]

That's a good question David. Maybe some degree or maybe the bevels just keep the chipping at bay longer?

I'd say that it looks definitely unhardened. The way the metal has moved looks just like any other typical axe head. Hardened polls either resist movement to a large degree or chip, depending on the level of hardness and what the are hit with.

 

[jblyttle]

My 50's Hults Bruk 4 lb. easily endures some hits on the poll and it doesn't have near the thickness of metal that the Council 6 lb. does. Whereas with the Council I'm noticing some mushrooming? Did I just get lucky in finding the Hults? DM

What are you hitting it with, how hard and how frequently? I think that most will survive light use with maybe some nicks. The really beat up ones were mostly abused by people getting them stuck while splitting and then smashing them as hard as they can with a hammer to drive them through. Over and over and over again...