The axe for the north, the machete for the tropic, what for the desert?

sasha said:
Dawsonbob i like going there on Xmas for a week. Most of the time there are no people and the animals come out.. I got to find some pic from a friends trip when he got more then 6in of snow at big blair valley. Its actualy very pretty.

Sasha
Click to expand...

I like that time of the year, too. I've got a trip to the local mountains planned for early October, and then — if things work out — the desert in late November/early December. With any luck I want to make it out in around March when the flowers come out, too. I love seeing the pictures that all the guys from the North show of their areas, with everything so green, but we have some pretty spectacular scenery out here, too.
 
If we are only talking an edged tool I say a large knife capable of chopping, harvesting cactus paddles and kiling/skinning critters if you are out long enough.
 
gunknifenut said:
Machete, Axe and Shovel + Canteen (full), and a 4 inch fixed blade (Scandi).
This is what I think you should carry as you kit, no matter where you are.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be offensive; but, have you ever been in the desert for more than a few hours? The axe is unnecessary weight, and how much water does a canteen hold? 1qt, 2qts? That's not enough water to last half a day if you're doing more than just casual walking, most times of the year.

If you're digging, cutting brush, building shelter, constantly changing elevation, walking through huge spots of soft sand, or any of the other activities that would be considered normal in a lot of desert environments you're going to need a lot of water. What is a lot, and how do you plan on carrying it? When I was in the Army, here's what I carried in the desert:

2, 2qt canteens
2, 1qt canteens
3 liter water bladder

That's about 1.5 gallons of water, and it was not enough to last the day. We always had a water buffalo that was accessible at least once a day, and usually carried several 5 gallon jerry cans of water in the vehicle.

Besides water, the other useful items were food, poncho, 550 cord, cravats, fleece to keep nights semi-comfortable, lighter/matches/fire starting stuff, machete, 3-4" fixed blade knife, swiss-army knife, and e-tool.

If I wasn't digging fox holes and fighting positions, I would loose the e-tool. You can chop everything with a machete, and do some digging if you have to.
The desert is strange; you need to keep cool and protect yourself from the sun/heat/dehydration/wind-wind is underestimated in the desert, and at night keep warm.
 
dawsonbob said:
Yep. For Northern forests an axe may be the thing, I guess, but out here a good machete takes the prize. Light woods in our mountains, brush popping in the foothills, or in the deserts, nothing works better than a good machete. For me, it's a bolo; the weight and length are just right for chopping and light digging.
Click to expand...

I like a golok ... one of the longer ones with a bit thicker spine.

However, recently I've become interested in Dave Farmer's excellent hand-made goloks.

I spent the first 25 years of my life in the desert southwest (Arizona, New Mexico, and Nevada), then some quality time in Colorado.:) Trapped on the East Coast for quite some time now, though.

Have to agree with Wulf about water. Without potable water, nothing else will matter ... and very soon.
 
i had a talk with david alloway about this before he died, he was very happy with a cold steel SRK as his only desert knife, he used this knife on his australian desert survival course and never felt that he was at a disadvantage. david wrote one of the best desert survial books i have seen, and taught desert survival until his untimely death.

alex
 
I spent a few weeks at Ft. Irwin at the NTC in Jan and Feb of '84. I was surprised how beautiful the desert was. I always wanted to see a desert like the ones in the Roadrunner cartoons, and I got my wish!

I'd also go with the machete, but back it up with a SAK. Much more useful than a Mora, IMO.
 
The desert looks like the ultimate challenge in terms of scarcity. So far all the input has been great!
 
wulfshrunting said:
I'm not trying to be offensive; but, have you ever been in the desert for more than a few hours? The axe is unnecessary weight, and how much water does a canteen hold? 1qt, 2qts? That's not enough water to last half a day if you're doing more than just casual walking, most times of the year.

If you're digging, cutting brush, building shelter, constantly changing elevation, walking through huge spots of soft sand, or any of the other activities that would be considered normal in a lot of desert environments you're going to need a lot of water. What is a lot, and how do you plan on carrying it? When I was in the Army, here's what I carried in the desert:

2, 2qt canteens
2, 1qt canteens
3 liter water bladder

That's about 1.5 gallons of water, and it was not enough to last the day. We always had a water buffalo that was accessible at least once a day, and usually carried several 5 gallon jerry cans of water in the vehicle.

Besides water, the other useful items were food, poncho, 550 cord, cravats, fleece to keep nights semi-comfortable, lighter/matches/fire starting stuff, machete, 3-4" fixed blade knife, swiss-army knife, and e-tool.

If I wasn't digging fox holes and fighting positions, I would loose the e-tool. You can chop everything with a machete, and do some digging if you have to.
The desert is strange; you need to keep cool and protect yourself from the sun/heat/dehydration/wind-wind is underestimated in the desert, and at night keep warm.
Click to expand...

Yup..I spent MORE than a few hours in the Mohave...about a month. I carried about 75lbs a day, with a couple canteens. Army as well. I am one of those pesky guys that doesnt see a major differnece in tools vs. terrain. Your right, the Axe might not be AS important as a saw in the desert, but its a part of my toolbox..and I am a tool guy. At the time I went..I didnt have an axe with me.
But I would have carried one.
I will say that surviving in the desert "lost and stranded" is different than going there on purpose...but I dont plan on getting stranded anywhere..ever.
Sometimes I stay somewhere longer than planned...but that just means I am "staying somewhere"..not stranded. I think survival is a mindset, more than a pile of tools. If you think you are lost, and not just walking down a "new" road, than you are. PhilosophicRant done...:D
 
I have a book by David Alloway on survival in the Chihuahua Desert. He used to run Search and Rescue missions in the area. He advocated a 4-6" fixed blade knife to be on the person. He was against burrowing into the sand because he said that you use too much exertion to make the shelter. Instead he pitched getting off of the ground (the heat of the ground will affect you) and getting under shade. He said the knife he carried, I think it was a Cold Steel SRK (Survival Rescue Knife), or a similar type was all that was needed and that bigger blades were not necessary. I don't remember him saying anything about machetes or using a shovel. He was clear that all deserts are different and that his desert survival techniques were for the Chihuahuan Desert only.

I was in the Sinai Desert for six months living on a military camp so I did not have to deal with any survival situations. However, I know the Bedouin did not carry machetes or shovels. They carried knives. They Egyptians were the same way. All wore loose clothes and head wraps similar to a turban. I don't remember anything more than knives with them, if they even carried that.

I remember once flying a helicopter through the Sinai desert and we saw a lone tree in the middle of nowhere. Underneath was a man sitting in the shade. It was over 120F degrees. No roads as far as we could see. I could not see any water, pack, or equipment with him either. He was obviously waiting for the heat of the day to dissipate, but we had no clue how he got there or how he was going to get out of there either. He ignored us and did not wave or anything. That was an odd sight.
 
Dude, you should have taken a picture. That must have been an awesome sight.

Wind was mentioned, that does get overlooked. It is what will cause dehydration quickly and unnoticed if you are not careful. The minute you stop sweating it may be too late.

I personally use a SAK as an edc. If I were allowed to carry a machete at work I would. It used to be standard issue. Btw, I work for a water utility. I have used that SAK on our dense, dry and sun hardened wood out here to try and whittle a spoon and it turned out usable but didn't take a pic. What surprised me though was the edge retention, the blade was still scary sharp. I love my SAK. I bet the Bedouin would like some SAK's.
 
As for 120f, I also worked for the post office as a letter carrier. The inside of a postal vehicle can get up to 140f. I used to be on the street delivering from 7am to 8-9pm. Sitting in shade would have been 100 times better. It also explains the lack of pack.
 
Well, first thing is to understand that most of the desert in the US is considered high desert and is not the same as your Arabian type desert you usually see in the movies.

When I lived in NV, The best thing was either a long (10+ inch) knife or some type of machete. Also take a set of BBQ tongs -- seems damn near everything has spines, needles, fangs or stingers.

I USUALLY tried not to get out of sight of my Jeep "in the wild". Things I always had in the Jeep were:
5 Gal jerry can of water.
5 Gal jerry can of gas.
GI e-tool.
M65 field jacket (laugh all you want, it goes from 100 deg in the day to 50 at night -- NE NV).
Poncho & liner.

Even getting out of the Jeep for a walk around, I'd grab a 2 qt canteen and machete.

If I went for a hike, I'd have anywhere from 2-4 gallons of water (I'm paranoid).
 
I see mentioned the e-Tool a lot, any suggestions on which brand or model is best, I have a CS Spetsnaz Shovel and that is about my limited knowledge of shovels and entrenching tools.
 
Last edited:
OldPhysics said:
I like a golok ... one of the longer ones with a bit thicker spine.

However, recently I've become interested in Dave Farmer's excellent hand-made goloks.

I spent the first 25 years of my life in the desert southwest (Arizona, New Mexico, and Nevada), then some quality time in Colorado.:) Trapped on the East Coast for quite some time now, though.

Have to agree with Wulf about water. Without potable water, nothing else will matter ... and very soon.
Click to expand...

While I like the new Condor golok a lot, it's a bit too long for my terrain. I really like the new Condor bolo though. For the things I do, a shorter, heavier blade works pretty well. I have to agree about the water, too. For any of us who have spent time in the desert, it goes without saying. For those people from the East who may visit our deserts, take a guess at what you think will be too much water, then triple it. Sure, it's heavy, but it won't be for long: you'll use it pretty fast out here.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Well, first thing is to understand that most of the desert in the US is considered high desert and is not the same as your Arabian type desert you usually see in the movies.

When I lived in NV, The best thing was either a long (10+ inch) knife or some type of machete. Also take a set of BBQ tongs -- seems damn near everything has spines, needles, fangs or stingers.

I USUALLY tried not to get out of sight of my Jeep "in the wild". Things I always had in the Jeep were:
5 Gal jerry can of water.
5 Gal jerry can of gas.
GI e-tool.
M65 field jacket (laugh all you want, it goes from 100 deg in the day to 50 at night -- NE NV).
Poncho & liner.

Even getting out of the Jeep for a walk around, I'd grab a 2 qt canteen and machete.

If I went for a hike, I'd have anywhere from 2-4 gallons of water (I'm paranoid).
Click to expand...

Some excellent points, Cpl. The high desert isn't anything like Lawrence of Arabia movie type desert. I really like your suggestion of BBQ tongs: that's a winner.:thumbup:

When I was in the Corps we pulled an exercise at Twenty Nine Palms (high desert). It was like 120 degrees F during the day, but at night we had to loosen the caps on our canteens because it dropped down to freezing. Anyone who comes out to play in the high desert should be aware of the dramatic temperature difference between night and day. If you haven't experienced it, you're in for a shock.
 
There's some surplus e-tools that are pretty sturdy. Mine has a wooden shaft, and a square-shouldered bolt to lock the head into three positions. Either German or Swiss; not sure which. Cost me maybe $20 not too long ago - from Colemans.com, I think.
 
dante said:
I see mentioned the e-Tool a lot, any suggestions on which brand or model is best, I have a CS Spetsnaz Shovel and that is about my limited knowledge of shovels and entrenching tools.
Click to expand...

If you like the straight handle type, the German are probably the best. they fold just above the spade. They can fold 90 deg to use as a hoe, and the also have a pick on the backside to loosen hard dirt.

The WWII- 'Nam US, and Swiss shovels are the same as the German, but minus the pick.

If you like D-handle type shovels, a real GI tri-fold e-tool is good.

I prefer the d-handle type. Just make sure the one you buy is a real surplus GI (made by Ames), the cheap Chinese knockoffs don't hold up, the real ones do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top