the best and the worse steel types ?

R

radu1976

Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
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As a newbie I would like to know which are the best , the middle class and the less superior materials used in blades from the next ones - I am considering the reliability of the steel - :

ATS34 S30V 154 CM
VG-10
AUS4
AUS6
AUS8
440C
440A
SANDVIK 13C26
8CR14MOV
8CR13MOV

Any opinion will be very welcome !
 
radu1976 said:
As a newbie I would like to know which are the best , the middle class and the less superior materials used in blades from the next ones - I am considering the reliability of the steel - :
Click to expand...

1) All steels are reliable.

2) Best for what? Different steels have different properties. That makes them better for different tasks.

3) There is no "best steel".

Read this sticky. It will help you.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368828
 
Thanks for the hint ! Well the question is more complicated than I thought !
I meant ...the steel quality, the capacity of lasting in time. Reliability. Normally , you cut 100 times with a steel you have to resharpen it ; you cut 200 times with another one you have to resharpen it too...obviously the 2-nd one is much better than the first steel.
 
Radu it sounds like you are looking for strong edge holding properties. If that's the case I'd look at ZDP189 or S90V, or the more common S30V.
 
radu1976 said:
As a newbie I would like to know which are the best , the middle class and the less superior materials used in blades from the next ones - I am considering the reliability of the steel - :

ATS34 S30V 154 CM
VG-10
AUS4
AUS6
AUS8
440C
440A
SANDVIK 13C26
8CR14MOV
8CR13MOV

Any opinion will be very welcome !
Click to expand...

Performance of the steel is more depends on manufacturer then on steel itself, there are many evidence to this.

I hope this may help:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=589139

Thanks, Vassili.
 
The further up you go in the list, the longer the edge will last on your knife.

S30V
VG-10
154 CM
ATS34
440C
SANDVIK 13C26
8CR14MOV
8CR13MOV
AUS8
AUS6
AUS4
440A
 
The only steel I have found I can't get along with so far is 420J.
Favortites: CPM 30V, CPM D2/D2, VG-10, 154CM/ATS-34 in order.
 
enderwiggin said:
The further up you go in the list, the longer the edge will last on your knife.

S30V
VG-10
154 CM
ATS34
440C
SANDVIK 13C26
8CR14MOV
8CR13MOV
AUS8
AUS6
AUS4
440A
Click to expand...

440C is not right below ATS-34. It should be right above AUS-6. ;)
 
Steel alone does not give the whole story. You can get same steel from 2 different manufacturers or even knife batches from same manufacturer that can be different.

other factors are: knife shape & profile; edge geometry; heat/cryo treatment - there are just too many variables. This is why it's best to ask forum members which knives in their experience are best suited for the tasks you have in mind.
 
i think for edc s30v is my pick..
but again the above posters are correct
it depends on what you want to use the knife for..
for construction work i would prefer the simi hollow 440 C on pre 81 buck knives..
the full hollow 440 hc is good also ...
hunting and skining ...well D2 and 154 cpm are hard to beat..
again NO knife is every thing to every body and good for every use

my 2 centavos worth
 
radu1976 said:
As a newbie I would like to know which are the best , the middle class and the less superior materials used in blades from the next ones - I am considering the reliability of the steel - :

ATS34 S30V 154 CM
VG-10
AUS4
AUS6
AUS8
440C
440A
SANDVIK 13C26
8CR14MOV
8CR13MOV

Any opinion will be very welcome !
Click to expand...
You are leaving out some great steels. My favorites are 1095, O1, D2 and S30v. I also really like Case's CV steel and D2 is great also when heat treated properly.
 
The equation of: How much the edge can take during use VS. how difficult it is to sharpen... is VERY important.

I'll have to say that my Spydie S90V is really blowing me away. Time will tell WHEN I have to resharpen it, but for now it is mind boggling...

The BEST steel I've used and used and resharpened and used and used and used... is Swamp Rat Knife Works SR101. I reckon their "Hairy Carry" model in 154cm really packs a punch as well.. I did own one for a short time, but was unsatisfied with the THICK grind, and overly "toothy" edge. I never cut a single thing with it since I knew I would be getting rid of it. If you can pick up one of their "Swamp Wardens (smaller fixed blade in SR101)," I would definitely do so... or a Hairy Carry (small-ish, fancier, VERY nice looking fixed blade in 154cm)...otherwise their knives are uglier than a bag of dead dog peters. There is WAAAAAAY more to a knife than edge retention... sharpenability is as or even more important... IMO. HEAT TREAT is everything...

I find Benchmade's 154cm EXCELLENT. It holds a GREAT edge, and is no problem to touch up, or even bring back from the dead.. (win-win)

The complete opposite of their 154cm HT, I find Benchmade's S90V to not hold a great edge, possibly too brittle, and extremely difficult to sharpen...tooo hard. (lose-lose)

Strider's S30V holds an incredible edge...and is also EXTREMELY difficult to sharpen. (win-win, though a PITA)

Chris Reeve Knives (Partial inventor of S30V), IMO is the ONLY production knifemaker to have absolutely nailed the HT on S30V. It's edge does not hold up as long as the "Bos" HT on a Strider, but it is close... and it it not tooo hard to sharpen. (win-win)

Then there is Spyderco... my favorite "flavor" of S30V. Because of the makeup of S30V, there are inherent properties... in laymans terms, the way the steel rubs off during use leaves harder particles behind, keeping a "usable" edge long after it is "dull" to a true knifeknut. Spydies S90V is the softest I've used, but it still stays "useably" sharp through hard-ish use.. The SUPRISE package, is it "touches up" on a stone incredibly quick. (IMO - win-win)

I'm still dreading the day I have to touch up my S90V Military...

My answer for you... "The Best," all things considered, (THAT I'VE USED), is Swamp Rat Knife Works SR101. UNBELIEVABLE edge retention, and around the same sharpening difficulty as CRK's S30V.
 
archieblue said:
Strider's S30V holds an incredible edge...and is also EXTREMELY difficult to sharpen. (win-win, though a PITA)
Click to expand...

i haven't found strider s30v any more difficult to sharpen than other s30v knives.


I'm still dreading the day I have to touch up my S90V Military...
Click to expand...

sal glesser has said he uses the fine (or ultra fine?) stones on the sharpmaker to touch up/sharpen, and has had simple and good results. info only.
 
Overall, My favorite is 1095 followed by CM154. I also would have to put 420j at or near the bottom but even that has one advantage, It's cheap.

As stated before, the quality of the heat treat, tempering and edge geometry is what it is all about. I have had and used some very good knives with aus6 and aus8
 
Edge retention versus toughness. There are a lot of factors but the primary two, in most steel types, are carbon content and hardness (this is a generalization but here goes). High carbon high hardness = low toughness. Low carbon low hardness = high toughness. The reverse is true of edge holding (most of the time). High carbon high hardness = good edge retention. Low carbon low hardness = poor edge retention.
To compare a few steel types at opposite ends of the spectrum, lets take ZDP-189 and S-7. ZDP-189 uses some newfangled powder metallurgy process to pack in 3% carbon, plus who knows what else (Hitachi likes to keep secrets), and is generally hardened around Rc 65 (that is Rockwell hardness, your teeth are around Rc 30, a few points higher than gold, thus you can dent it with your teeth). S-7 is 0.55% carbon, and usually hardened to Rc 57. ZDP-189 is one of the best steel types out there for edge holding, S-7 is probably the toughest steel type you can get your hands on (excluding INFI).
Just going off the hardness of the blade and the carbon content you can get a very basic idea of the intended application of the steel.
If you want a comprehensive look at it you'd have to factor in the dozens of different elements and how they affect the microscopic structure of the steel during and after the infinitely variable heat treat process.

I've found these helpful.

A.G. Russell steel guide (for alloy content).
http://www.agrussell.com/Steel_Guide/a/73/

Joe's Steel FAQ.
http://www.agrussell.com/Articles/a/109/

Spyderco's element chart.
http://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/steel.php

Last but not least.
Kevin Cashen's website has a lot of detailed information if you're brave enough to try and understand.
http://www.cashenblades.com/Info/Info.html
 
I am no expert on metallurgy but I know what I like and my new Spydie Caly 3 in ZDP-189 is absolutely Awesome! I've used 420, 440C, S30V, D2, BG-42, ATS-34, 154cm, as well as a few "no-name" brands but nothing compares to the ZDP so far. I DO have a new Military in S90V but haven't used it enough to form any opinions yet. Had no problems touching up the Caly 3 either.....
 
Thank you very much for all the tips, guys !
I was planning to buy - and I am gonna do it - a CRKT S-2 6' plain edge knife which is using an 154CM steel type.
I read about this knife here and this discontinued model seems to have a good reputation.
I was assuming too that the 154CM is a good steel, and that's confirmed .
Just found the knife for 50$ shipped - like new with its box - and considering its steel , its handle - titanium - I am guessing I will like it . I like its shape too.
It will be my 2-nd knife after a RED KERSHAW BLUR which I like it but I found the blade quite wide
I am considering buying in the future a SPYDERCO CARA CARA - which has a good reputation here considering the raport quality/price - and maybe a CRKT PAZODA for opening the parcels .
There are lots of beautiful knives...too many to choose from .
Particulary I LOVE the BENCHMADE SKIRMISH, I find it really sexy , but I am not ready to spend 120$+ for this knife...well not yet. Benchmade Presidio or mini Griptilian are other nice options too...but the SKIRMISH looks awesome !
 
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