The Best Knife Steel/s?????

J

JDBLADE

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Dec 8, 2003
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This debate will continue to rage long after this post is long forgotten. In evaluating knife steels over a period of years as a maker, user and dealer I have come up with a short list of the best knife steels. This list is based on ‘Commercial” knives currently available – you could come up with a different list for “Custom” or “Handmade” knives as the maker has more time to put into the knife and steel then the “Commercial” makers. I am not a metallurgist nor do I have any “qualifications” relevant to the issue of steel as I said I judge these steels on experience as a maker, use and dealer.

The best steel for knives is D2 – no doubt about it. Everyone knows of Bob Dozier’s treatment of this steel. It has just the right amount of Carbon.

The second best is S30V – many think this is a “fad” steel. It is not – it has an edge holding capability approaching D2 and cuts nearly as well. Again the right amount of Carbon and the 4 percent of Vanadium is a great addition.

The third best is 154CM – this old workhorse is still around and Benchmade do a very good job with it. The mix of Carbon, Chromium and Vanadium is just about right.

The fourth best is VG10 – not overly popular but just about equal to 154CM. Spyderco do a good job with this one.

The fifth best is 440C – a great utility steel that has been around a long time and again Benchmade do a good job with this. In my opinion when properly heat-treated this steel can be the most useful steel around unfortunately when badly treated it is not worth picking up. The high percentage of Chromium means this steel is great for knives around salty environments.

And, if more “Commercial” makers used it I would have to put A2 in there as third – it is a greatly underrated steel.

Some of the above steels have close cousins such as ATS34 & BG10 for 154CM and AUS10 for 440C so as to be interchangeable. Any of the steels with over 1.6 carbon in my view and no good as “Commercial” steels and anything with less then .95 percent carbon are not worth considering.

Let the debate continue.
 
I don't care for stainless steel, so most of your choices would not be mine. I have found that large amounts of chromium makes blades brittle, especially when combined with very high carbon content. Besides that, you don't often see forged stainless steel, and I prefer forged knives.

D-2 is a very good steel. Not my favorite, but one that I do like.

My number one steel is CPM 3V. I don't find it's lack of corrosion/rust resistance to be a problem and it is way tougher than the steels mentioned above, even S30V. It also holds an edge incredibly well.

Next comes 52100 when forged by those that know how to get the most out of this excellent steel.

There are actually many fine low chromium, high carbon steels.

I also disagree with your assertion that steels with under .95% carbon are not worth considering. For instance, L-6 and 5160 can be used to make some excellent blades.
 
M2 fits in with A2 in that it is not widely used by "Commercial" makers. I said in my original post that I was referring to commercial makers and that you could come up with a different list for custom makers. L6 and 5160 does make good blades but they benefit from being forged. Steels such as AUS6, AUS8, 440A etc do not rate with the other steels in Commercial Knives in my view. Again I reiterate that I am talking about Commercial blades and not forged or custom. We all have differing opinions on the best steel and that is why the debate continues.
 
I would like to know about this H-1 that Spyderco is using in their Pacific Salt. Nitrogen... who woulda thunk it?
 
I've chatted a fair bit with one of the best smiths in the ABS and his always told me "its all in the heat treat..." which goes for the "crappy" stainless steels. At the moment we have the few conventional heat treating methods, BUT with new metallurgical advances and new methods of treating the steel I agree that any steel can be made to have an equal hardness, flex and wear resistence.

But out of the current knives, with the steels mentioned D-2 is freeking great stuff...brilliant to work with too.
 
i can't really pick a favorite.
i have smaller knives in VG10, S30V, D2, 154CM, and i luv them all. the performance between them all is too small to notice under normal circumstances.

for larger blades, i only have them in 5160, which in my opinion is the best steel for a big choppy blade.

it really comes down to what you're using the knife for, rather than simply looking @ the steel's credentials.

would you want a khukri done with D2?

would you want a Dozier type of blade done in 5160 instead of D2?

etc etc
 
ok commercial blades...let's see, for me:

S30V (sebenza)
S30V (buck mayo) = VG10 (spyderco)
154CM (emerson)
ATS34 (sog)
AUS8 (kabar dozier)

sadly, I only have the kabar dozier n a bg42 sebbie now....haven't really tested the bg42 (but it's not as corrosion resistant as I hoped)...
 
I like D-2. But my favorite steels in my personal knives are 01 and 1095. These steels cut as good and are easier to sharpen they just don't look as clean.
 
Keith.....I would love to know how that 3v sharpens? I'm like you as I like forged blades also. D-2, IMHO, is one of the best semi-stainless steels available for using blades.
 
O1 & 1095 Yeah! I love these steels too - maybe I should have fitted them in somewhere in the list too. 1095 had some measure of popularity in Commercial blades but O1 has not although Randalls have used it with a lot of success. Some of the best blades I made were out of O1 but in the long run it was more economical to use D2 given heat treatment problems with O1.
 
3V easily. And as far as low carbon goes, what about Busse knives INFI (another nitrogen based material, from what I understand)? I like all of the steels you mentioned, but would place VG10 above 154CM. I just like it better. I honestly have no D2 experience. I love 3V, though, and it isn't hard to sharpen.
 
It's interesting to see how you rank the differnt blade materials but I'd like to know what the grade types consist of as well. I know nothing about this so the basic elements might be helpful. How much chromium, carbon, etc. might be interesting to chart.

Also, why are the names so different from one another. No rationale seems to carry through between them.

The material type indicates how brittle the blade is and I assume that it also indicates how well it holds it's edge. What other factors might be defined by each type? I suppose it makes a difference in use such as cutting paper, wood, rope, fabric, skin, muscle, etc.

How about thickeness of the blade? A local gunsmith suggested finding a custom knife maker for a very thin blade. Why is that important?

My new Benchmade 9100SBT Stryker is 154CM with a 0.12" blade thickness. Apparently this material is good but isn't the blade too thick?
 
I don't have extensive experience (just a few of the most popular steels) but I'd like to nominate the laminated approach that Fallkniven is pioneering. A very high carbon, high hardness edge, while the rest of the blade has all the toughness and corrosion resistance you could ever want. Their little U2 cuts and holds an edge like crazy. Other manufacturers will certainly follow.
 
I believe there is a steel chart in the FAQ's if not most makers websites have a steel chart - Spyderco eg as a good one.

As far as names go there is some rationale with some of them but with others there is not often an explanation. Again check out some of the steel charts or the FAQ's here as it would require a rather lengthy reply.

The uses of steel for different purposes has some bearing eg for a tough camp knife most would suggest a lower carbon steel such as 5160 whereas for fish filleting you go for the high chromium stainless such as 440c. Again there is plenty to read in the FAQs and searches.

Your gunsmith is probably correct mainly as most Commercial thin knives are stamped out of the lower grade steels mainly for cost reasons. There are some makers who specialise in creating thin knives of quality out of quality steels - Phil Wilson is one who comes to mind.

I don't think your Benchmade is too thick again it depends on usage.

Hope this helps.
 
I should have read your initial post a little more closely.

D-2 seems to be used rarely on commercial blades. I don't consider Bob Dozier's knives to be commercial. It is a great steel though.

I have never cared for ATS-34 or 154CM. Maybe it is just the knives that I have personally owned that had blades made from these steels, but I found myself preferring BG-42 and VG-10. There is a powder metallurgy steel called RWL-34 that has about the same chemical makeup as ATS-34/154CM, but in my opinion is a superior steel for knife blades.

Never had a liking for S60V and S90V. Too darn hard to sharpen for my liking. S30V on the other hand is not too hard to sharpen and it is pretty darn tough as well. S30V isn't perfect, but for a stainless it is darn good.

Another top notch stainless is AEB-L.

Carbon steels are used commercially on some darn fine knives. INFI, A2, 3V, and 1095 are but a few.
 
Just a couple of points. I would have thought D2 was being used more today on commercial knives then before - not a great percentage but more. Queen, Kabar and Benchmade come to mind. I think Bob Dozier is closer to a commercial shop than many other makers - I suppose he fits somewhere in between somewhat like Randalls. On the ATS34/154Cm - I suppose it does come down to knives you have used for me I had success with 154CM as a maker and user but I have never had an ATS34 I liked - funny that. Yes RWL34 is a great steel and we are lucky to have a supply of it here in Oz. I used it once as an experiment with a comparable 154CM blade and found it equal if not better.
 
154CM does not contain Vanadium, at least not in any analysis sheet I have seen.
 
Being an old retired NASA metallurgist, I have to agree that JDBlade has a pretty good list. Especially if you want your blade to resist rust like I do. I might place D2 and S30V as equal at the top of the list. I like Spyderco's S30V and a D2 Griptilian I have is great. JD has placed 440C correctly at the bottom of the list.
I also agree with others that 1095 ought to be on the list somewhere. I have an old butcher knife, 1095 blade, almost 50 yrs old that holds an edge as well as any stainless. Just gets a little rusty after not being used.
Excellent discussion. Fun reading.
FWIW,
og
 
Laminated blades were hardly pioneered by Fallkniven. Laminated blades have been made in Japan for hundreds of years used for swords, kitchen knives and woodworking tools.

I have had very good experiences with S30V, VG-10, ATS-34, ATS-55. But when it comes to ease of sharpening and maxium edge holding the nod has to go to the (virgin) carbon steels for me, like Shirogami (white paper steel) and A2. But I don't think I would want either in a folder. To dry off the pivot area is too difficult that I would anything than a corrosion resistant steel in a folder. Still looking for a knife I like in D2.
 
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