The BEST steel ... a proposal

Cliff, let me clarify my comment - This is in reference to practical application...isn't that what these tests are to imply, how materials perform during use? There may not be a best blade material for a utility knife, but there is always a collection of materials that are better. If that is not why we are testing then I agree with George...I don't want laboratory results. What I see is a set of rankings (realize that the rankings are not necessarily a total order, two may rank the same) that you mention, for edge holding, toughness, corrosion resistance, wear resistance, etc. From this we can use an arithmetic average based on our criteria to find a new ranking that might, in fact, produce several choices.

Rob, you now see what I mean. Our opinions for the most part are fashioned by isolated, unscientific methods. You have an idea of the performance, but cannot really justify it because, after all, you may just have a poorly heat treated 440C, or different edge geometries.

jj
 
jeff, to clarify, I don't think it would be reasonable to look for a best steel, or even the best steel for edge holding or whatever, I was just stating that it can be done.

What would be worthwhile is what you have described which would be to rank in a precise manner which is readily understandbale the abilities of various steels in several aspects.

Based on how they perform the reader can decide which steel would be best for his design and the intended use it will see.

-Cliff
 
Cliff I was just trying to emphasize the futility of trying to measure something that has too many variables to be nailed down.

I have chosen 440C for my knives because it met the benchmark that I had set for my knives...be able to dress and skin one moose with out having to be resharpened. Exactly how many slices of 1" hemp rope it will cut doesn't make one bit of difference to me, I never go hunting hemp rope.



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george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com


 
George :

I was just trying to emphasize the futility of trying to measure something that has too many variables to be nailed down.
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None of the comments made illustrate anything to that effect. Yes different sources will not produce 440C of exactly similar makeup, different makers will have different heat treats etc., all of this can easily be taken into account. All you would have to do is specific the source and the heat treat for each sample blade. You could then study the differences in 440C (or whatever) from different sources and under different heat treats. Same with angles, if you really think that a 1-2 degree difference is significant enough to reorder the performance of different steel varieties then use a jig and examine it (I have, it is not, blade materials can change in strength/toughness by 100% easily, this is a far greater influence).

A knife is a simple tool which works under a very simple mechanical motion. Materials that blades are made out of influence the behavior of the knife by very simple properties such as strength, toughness, ductility, and wear resistance. It is a very simple system to study. Materials are chosen everyday to match the needed abilties of the products far more complex in nature which have to operate under far more broad conditions and have to be rated over a very wide scope of use. In knives there are only a few such things you have to consider; how well does something cut, how long an edge will last, corrosion resistance, how much flex/impact will it take.

I study systems that are far more complex, which examine molecular interactions that are pressure, temperature, species and time dependent. It is not impossible.


Exactly how many slices of 1" hemp rope it will cut doesn't make one bit of difference to me, I never go hunting hemp rope.
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I don't go hunting 2x4" either, however when benchmarking large chopping blades it is much easier to go out in my backyard and cut through a couple of dozen to get a performance estimate than to go up in the woods and start felling and limbing out trees. Same thing with using rope of cardboard as blunting stock. It is faster, easier, and more reproducable.

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 04-14-2000).]
 
Absolutely go for it. i am sure there is something to be learned with such a test. Maybe not "the best steel" (why ,with so much out there,and new technology coming faster everyday, would you look?) maybe test and discussions like this are the very things that that push and move the industry, in smAll ways, all the time.
 
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