The big deal about CRKT and Taiwan??

El Cid, That is happening now. In fact it has been happening for years. And in further fact you all probly carry at least one knife that is using components made in China. Over the last two years while I have been setting up the new business I have been looking at Chinese companies to produce knives for me. In doing so many have shown me components, and in some cases complete knives, that are made there - shipped here - stamped made in USA and sold to you.

The quality is there, you just have to know where to look and demand it. Remember that China does not make knives for just the US. Many nations around the worl are 3rd world economies and the people simply can not afford to buy the knives made here in the US. So China fills that gap. Right now there is a gap in the US of >$10 & <$25 knives that are decent. I plan on filling that gap. Want to see one? Look for my post announcing the winner of the Dragon Forge design contest in the next few days.

I think most people's dislike for China has nothing to do with knives so much as it has to do with the comunist government. Otherwise we would be bashing India and Pakistan on this thread as well. I can say this, the Chinese people are some of the most loyal, dedicated, non cusing, polite people in the world. If I was working for their wages I would be saying all kinds of ****!
 
America's real export is intellectual property. Patents, software, music, film, etc. We are the uncontested king of design. That's what's really making us rich.
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I would have to sharply qualify "us" in that last sentence. This is a country of 300 million people, and very few of "us" can be scientist, artists, inventors, etc. Take a look at the newspaper - you just won't see alot of employment ads for rocket scientists.

Intellectual advancement is indeed the strength of western culture, but that doesn't mean all or even a large part of the public can make a living from intellectual endeavors.
 
Mike, I agree with you. I's funny how there are people who will turn away from a Taiwan stamp on a blade no matter how good the quality is, not realizing that their "Made in USA" knife, may have parts made in Tawain, Mexico, India or China. In my opinion Taiwan manufacturers have come along way and I'm sure Chinese manufacturers can do the same. I look forward to your Dragon Forge line and I really like the idea of bringing affordable high quality imports to knifedom.
 
Originally posted by Mike Turber
I can say this, the Chinese people are some of the most loyal, dedicated, non cusing, polite people in the world.
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Talk about a broad statement - there are a billion of them :D

- Gon
 
You are forgetting to count those who live overseas.

I kinda find it funny ppl call the chinese a minority. Though placed in the context of the area that they are living in that is true.
 
I still say American companies could do well producing high quality products with American labor, if only they were willing. Germany, Switzerland, and Japan all do well taking that approach.

Most people are willing to pay high prices for quality products, provided they can afford them. Just look at Rolex and Mercedes. Why do people pay thousands of dollars for a Swiss watch, when they could tell time just as well with a $20 Timex? Why do people pay hundreds of dollars for Busse and Randall knives, when similar Ontario knives can be bought for a fraction of the price? The fact is, there is a tremendous appeal to owning the best of something, and people will pay the price if they can afford it.
 
BTW, Mr. Turber, the Japanese were some of the most loyal and dedicated people in the world during WWII. It ain't always a good thing!
 
Originally posted by Bravado
I purchased an M-16 a few years ago because I liked
the design of the knife. Although I have to admit the
Taiwan thing did throw me off a little bit I decided
to give one a try. Unfortunately the liner lock failed
upon stress testing so I sent it back to the company.
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Between your comment and that of "Think of the Children", I went and returned an M-16 that arrived today. Generally, it's a good looking knife and I like flipper openers, but the liner lock did indeed appear very flimsy.

I'll be sticking with flippers with better locks, albeit more expensive customs, such as my Darrel Mini Mad Maxx and a J. W. Smith blasted titanium handled frame locking, recurved, satin finished blade knife, of which the name escapes me for the moment.
 
Okay the short version:


Beck,

Superhigh quality manufacturing will always thrive here, people still pay half a million for handmade cars, but that doesn't mean low-tech manufacturing industry (tools, parts) as a whole will survive. The average consumer do not buy Rolex and Randalls.

Earlier you mentioned the intellectual property industry only benefit the elite. This is not so. It's not only scientist and musicians creating IP, whenever CRKT do a custom collaboration with Jim Hammond, they are exporting American IP. IP also create jobs. General Motors generate huge amounts of IP, yet most of their employees have nothing to do with design. Furthermore, entire industries support IP without producing any of their own. The marketing, selling/buying, ownership and protection of IP is a rapidly growing business.

Granted the IP sector do not employ all Americans, but neither does any other sector of the economy. The important part is that it is the future whereas low-tech manufacturing is not. The profit margin of IP is huge, manufacturing margins are dangerously close to bank interest rates, and is not sustainable. Foreign competition is only part of the reason. The real reason is because standard of living has raised to the point were we can't afford our own labor.

You said:
"immigration is making inroads in professional occupations. I think more Americans could afford a $200 knife if we had protected our country and our jobs."
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This is also a common misunderstanding. We import foreign professionals not for the hell of it, but because there are not enough high-skilled Americans to sustain our way of life. I once heard Buchanan talk some nonsense about foreign high-tech workers stealing jobs by working cheap. I was in the hiring business and believe me there are minimum wage laws for high-tech people and still companies pay far above this minium because these guys are in such high demand. Foreign talents create IP for us, and create jobs. Our college grads are going into the IP support business (marketing, protection) and not enough are making the stuff. This is largely due to the fact that our education system sucks shyte thru a straw.

I still say the best way to protect the US economy is to increase the number of high-skilled, highly-educated people, and evolve to a higher mode of production. But protection is not the same as preservation. While I share the sentiment of protecting jobs, low-tech manufacturing is more a burden than an asset. Preservation invariably allow third world countries to narrow their gap with us and hold back our own growth. America used to be a leading exporter of raw glass, anyone want to argue we should have protected the glass industry?

Remeber what Iaccoca said; "lead, follow, or get out of the way."
 
tallwingedgoat,

The one thing you have said that I do agree with is that our education system sucks - badly. Still, hiring from abroad isn't the answer. The voucher system ought to fix the schools, but until that happens, business needs to provide the training so that Americans can do the jobs.

Sure, you can argue that a skilled immigrant can generate support jobs for American citizens. However, a skilled American generates even more jobs - jobs for those who educate him and one more for himself.

But to me all of this economic theory really misses the point. The point is that people today are out of work. The point is that wages for the blue collar class have been sharply reduced by immigration. The point is that large numbers of older professionals in engineering and IT are being laid off, while immigrants are stepping off airplanes and getting jobs. The point is that we have serious crime and social problems because America maintains a large underclass. If economic modernization is the answer to these problems, when is it going to start working?
 
I never owned a CRKT/Taiwanese knife, so I can't comment on that, but my SERE 2000 is made in Japan and that knife rocks. For the money, its the best built, most finely crafted knife I have ever handled. I think it clobbers anything at its price point, especially in fit and finish. You can't feel (almost can't see!) any seams/joints on the grips or liners. So, there is no question in my mind that Japan, at least, can make a dynamite product.
 
Japan has beem making the best electronic stuff for years...they are light years ahead of Taiwan and mainland China. Some of the Taiwanese products are very good, some not so hot, but I think the real problem has been pointed out....TAIWAN AND CHINA have NO regard for copyright laws and could care less if they infringe on your product or your patent. Then we could go into the human rights violations of China, their forced abortion issues, murder of Christians or any other religious groups who are in their mind antigovernment........the list goes on

http://www.persecution.org/
 
I don't see immigration as the cause of the social problems you discribed. Blue collar wage supression, if it's real, is not likely caused by legal immigration. Older IT guys aren't competitive, that's just the nature of the business. Whenever there's an economic slow down, immigration gets blamed. But it's never credited during periods of growth.

On the job training as you discribed wouldn't work. We don't accept immigrants for the auto-industry, it's for highly specialized roles. Most of the positions available need Masters, PhD qualifications. We don't even have enough graduates with Bachelors. Furthermore, where are the companies going to find enough qualified instructors? The knowledge required is not in text books yet. Sure businesses could sponsor grad students, but in the fast paced world of business, the process is just too slow.

I agree a training and advanced education program is badly needed. And I think this is where the government, not corporations needs to put serious investment. This is way beyond vouchers and will take a decade and billions to see result. Unfortuantly, the government don't like long term planning.
 
Older IT guys aren't competitive, that's just the nature of the business.
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OK - I think we now know where Tallwingedgoat is coming from. I think the issue has been clearly defined. Now back to knife discussion.
 
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