Ah heck, I can't stay out of this anymore. Les is gone on vacation and AG Russell is attacking a problem that does not exist, and I know I will regret making this post, but what he heck...
Originally posted by A. G. Russell
Don't wait for Gary Randall to get involved. When you offer a moderator who is guided by phony guidelines and says that Randalls should be put into a group with Case and Schrade, he is unlikely to want to play. Would you?
AGRussell, with all the due respect, courtesy, and the politeness I can muster for one of the biggest names in knifedome, can you read?
Nobody 'offered' Randall knives a moderator for a forum here at BFC or made up any phony guidelines which says Randalls belong in a group with Case or Schrade. A dealer (Les R) who PAYS for his own forum here in the Exchange forums made a comment about a Randall knife for sale in the new fixed blade custom knife SALES forum. A couple of relatively new BFC members (e.g. M-P) absolutely freaked out over the comments Les made about a Randall knife for sale. M-P in particular keeps repeating his mantra about not wanting to sell any of his Randall knives until it is officially recognized that they are either 'custom' or in a class by themselves.
Maybe Gary Randall would be happy to have Melvin-Purvis moderate a Randall Forum here at BFC. But, oh no, would it go in the Exchange forum? or the Makers forum? Or maybe it should be a subforum of the Custom forum and also a subforum of the production forum at the same time. And at the same time, how should we classify the most excellent knives that AG has hand-made for him by anonymous makers in Seki City, which he puts his own name on and lets customers choose among handle scale materials. Are they all 'custom' knives too, AG?
Les is not the moderator of the Custom forum or the Custom sales forums. His tag says Moderator because he Owns his own forum here. His view of the word 'custom' is his own. However, it is shared by many in the knife world. If his understanding of the word Custom was not in common usage, major dealers like Nordic knives, Arizona Custom Knives, KnifeArt, Robertson Custom Custlery, Blade Gallery, and Gary Levine Custom Knives would not make a distinction between the work of individual makers (sometimes called artists) and the work of groups of individuals (sometimes called companies). Like it or not, Les' use of the word Custom is mainstream among knife makers and knife collectors. And you know it Mr. Russell.
Pointing at a dictionary is futile. Words change by Use over time. The meaning of words is not necessarily literal. It requires more information than can be gleaned from a dead and frozen text. This usage of the word 'custom' is important to members of the Knifemakers Guild.
Individual makers like to call themselves custom knifemakers, and sell all of their work as 'custom' whether the customer picked a material out or not. How much customizing does the customer have to do to be custom? Are you saying that all these dealers I mentioned, and all the the makers who belong to the Knifemakers Guild are NOT making or selling Custom knives unless the buyer designed it? I think if that is your intent, you just destroyed about 95% of the 'custom' knife market.
As honorary president of the Knifemakers Guild, I would think you would be more careful with words and the meaning of words than you are. Defending Randall's as 'customs' says that the work of individuals is no different than the work of companies. And selecting a handle material is sufficient customer input to make the knife ''custom'.
But as long as there are collectors like Brian Turner and Myself, who find little of interest in the knives made by folks who work for Randall, or Reeves, or AG Russell, the word 'custom' knife will continue to have special meaning. One word alone is not nearly enough of course, but I will always make some sort of distinction between a factory knife and a one man shop.
Is the work of Custom knifemakers to be divided into truly Custom knives, and knives they just happened to make according to their own whim, or to sell to unknown potential buyers at a show or on an internet site. Are these knives to be called Handmade, not Custom? If so, is the work of Handmade knife sellers like AG Russell and Randall Knives different in Any way from the individual work of a maker of the Knife Makers Guild?
By the way, if YOU wanted to have the BFC moderator tag next to YOUR name, you could arrange with Spark to have one. I see that you have already done that over at the Other knife forum which also features of Custom knife forum where people often post pictures of 'custom' knives on which they had no design input. Spark said there has to be OFFICIAL representation for a company forum here at BFC. That means it is up to the Randall Corporation to appoint a representative. Or, if You want a forum, someone You choose to represent your companies views. Since this topic is obviously to emotional and contentious, that only makes sense. Doesn't it?
BTW Melvin, it has NOT been decided (as you claimed in the blade discussion forum thread) that all or even some Randalls are custom knives in the way many 'custom' knife collectors understand pr use the word. You can call your knives custom in the sales forum, in the custom forum, and in any forum. I do not care.
I note that the Custom for sales forum now has many posts from folks selling Busse, and Randall knives and even has an obvious dealer using that forum to sell such knives and get free advertising. These same knives are also being offered for sale in the Production fixed blade forum.
Randalls are Randalls to me. Great knives, but not the same thing as what I call 'custom' knives. They have their own niche in the knife world, but it is not usually considered to be part of the 'custom' knife world. That this is so is abundantly clear from the print media, the names of knife shows, the way KG members advertise and sell their work, that Most guild members and Most 'custom' knife customers attach more meaning to the word custom than just 'customer ordered' and make a distinction between the work of members of the Knifemakers Guild, and the work of anonymous people who work for Others.
Paracelsus
aka Brad Hiltbrand (who knows how to read a dictionary, and how such reference materials sometimes fail to catch the current meaning or usage of a word, grok?)
), and when there's even a Randall Society, something tells me that it would be well received.