The Church needs Razor Wire...

SamuraiDave

SamuraiDave

Joined
Apr 6, 2001
Messages
2,632
Well,
The church my sister has been working at in South Dallas has been broken into again. Copper theives struck for the 3rd time and stole the Air Conditioning unit (for the 3rd time).

Being in the poorer part of Dallas they don't have the budget to keep this type of thing up so they are enlisting the help of anyone who will listen. Since I am one of the few who will drive to the other side of Dallas to help them out I have volunteered.

A 6 months ago (after the 2nd burglery) I suggested Razor Wire. The concertina type you see strung in coils around prisons and that the military uses. They thought it was too much then, but are now thinking otherwise.

The other problem is that they strung more barbed wire last time, and they dug under the fence a little then squeezed under the gap to get to the AC unit. I am planning on pouring some concrete into a cast to try to slow them down from doing the same thing. But am curious as to if I should cast some concertina wire coiling out of the concrete as well and hiding it in some really thorny bushes.

I need input of how yall would close off this 12"x12" square chain linked area. Everything but claymores is welcome.

And if it woulden't be too much to ask does anyone know where to get razor wire? I found a guy on e-bay that wanted over $100 for 50 feet. But I am not that rich.
 
South Dallas! Yikes. Move the church to Plano.
It is terrible to think that a church must resemble a prison.
How about a camera? There are some older Surveillance systems out there for cheap.
If it's the same guys, then one conviction ought to do it.

12' by 12' - big enough for a dog house and a water bowl ?

I'd definitely go with some solar-powered battery-type motion lights.

South Dallas, man I feel for ya. I remember going to a drive-thru burger place there and the window wasnt a window, it was a rotating steel cylinder with an opening on one side. I never actually saw anybody...
 
Use welded steel brackets to keep the AC in the window, then wrap the exterior of the unit with razor wire.

Consider hiring a security guard. Basically all he needs to do is stay awake all night and keep a cellphone and a flashlight with him. When the crackhead tries coming through the window he can holler at him and call 911.
 
First thing you need to do is find out if the laws in that area ALLOW razor wire. Many cities do not.
All "RAZOR WIRE" product's are potentially dangerous and should be attached to walls
and fences at a minimum height of eight feet. The installed material must avoid any and all contact with
pedestrian traffic and should be installed in a highly visible manner.
WARNING:
Check local codes
Click to expand...
Razor wire usually comes in 18 in dia. or larger rolls designed to be stretched out to about 30 feet, with about a 12 in spacing between coils. They can be stretched to 50 feet, but the perps would then be able to squeeze through fairly eaisily.
Razor wire is expensive, as it's made of stainless steel sheeting cut so as to make barbs, cold crimped around a hardened stainless spring steel wire.
 
Barbed wire, concertina, or any other wire is not going to prevent anyone from entering except perhaps for very small children. It will only slow them down a bit.

Try placing official-looking "THIS AREA UNDER CCTV SURVEILLANCE" stickers around the area.
 
Hi Dave,
Copper theft is a major problem, and hardening the target with fences, cages, etc. doesn't seem to work very well if the perps have the time to break through the barriers - pickup trucks, bolt cutters and basic tools are as necessary for the job as a steady supply of meth:barf:. Most of these guys will go to incredible lengths to rip off copper if they can do it, even though they wouldn't be caught dead working that hard at a real job. The cases I've seen that get solved involve catching the perps in the act and notifying police, i.e., the owner camps out at the scene of previous thefts, and the rocket scientists come back for a repeat performance. Cell phone to 911 while Bubba is in the act of prying off the burglar bars, with a few digital photos, can at least get Bubba some time to detox and learn new tricks of the trade from his cellies. If full-time stakeout isn't possible, there are some tech solutions in the form of alarm units. Haven't seen any of these used, so don't know how well they work. Good luck.:thumbup:
Berk
 
I have a trained sentry dog, female German Shepherd 100pounds about 5 years old I'd be willing to donate.
She bites and is serious so someone would have to be her handler.
She's a one person dog.

I was in the Guard dog business and kept her because of her breeding "East German" She spent a few years guarding a car lot and knows the job.
She'll bite men,woman or children so she's not a toy.
You build a kennel run where she stays during the day and you release her at night.
She's not handler aggressive but was bred and trained as a sentry dog.
Someone with experience needs to handle her.

Ivydev2@hotmail.com
 
What about a vented permanent enclosure? All you'll need is a building permit and common materials, possibly donated by parishoners(ultimately, they are paying for the new A/C units anyway.).
 
Surveillance cameras are a good idea, but chances are, by the time the film is developed or reviewed, the bowldragger in question will undoubtedly have cashed in the copper, bought their fix du jour, had liaisons with a disease-infested hooker and gotten lesions therefrom. Besides, even if the offender is caught and taken off the streets, there are going to be plenty of others lining up to leave your parishioners hot under the collar.
 
My sister didn't tell me much about the church so I went by there today with my girlfriend as my navigator (I have never seen anyone so glad I am a CCW permit holder).

Behind the building is 4 AC units. All of them, except the one that is missing the the internal parts leaving a shell of its former self behind, are in large black angle iron cages bolted to the concrete slabs where they rest.
Two AC units are behind one building, two behind the other building, each pair in its own chain link fence. I can tell that the fences have had roofs added to them recently. But that hasn't stopped anyone.
The AC units are bolted to slabs, and the fence is in concrete and bolted to the brick wall. There isn't much else I can do as that I live 45 minutes away, and that is if I catch good traffic all the way.

I coulden't tell where the previous theives had broken into the cage to take the internal parts of the now broken AC unit. But my Sis tell me that they dug a hole. It has been raining here and that covers up alot.

The only 2 things I can think of is to add more barbed wire as the stuff they had was old and looked like alot of people have messed with it, possibly making it look more intimidating, and to pour more concrete around the upright posts of the fence so that people can't dig under them.

Speaking of tech. Perhaps I should get some small blinking red LED's and place one on each of the AC units. I have an Uncle that swears by the psychylogical effect of blinking lights and they do make you think. (Although the man is a true moron.) A perp woulden't know what they were getting into and might think that a real alarm on the units had been installed.

And now that I think of it maybe I was wrong in my first post. Anyone have any Claymores or bouncing bettys?

However, you still cant keep somebody with a grappeling hook, chain, and a truck from ripping the entire rig from the ground.
 
Grappler1911 said:
I have a trained sentry dog, female German Shepherd 100pounds about 5 years old I'd be willing to donate. . . .She'll bite men,woman or children so she's not a toy.
Click to expand...

"Mom! The church's puppy ate Billy's nose!" :eek:

The churchgoers will be happy to know their church's AC and copper is being protected at night by a maneating attack dog. They'll probably need to sell the church after the first lawsuit.

I, however, love good puppies that eat people . . . but citizens are stoopid, and will walk up to maneating attack dog and think they can pet it . . . even if it's sticking its head out the window of a parked car . . . and all my puppies get to ride in car.
 
Do they have the money to add a significant security system? Like, with cameras, perimeter sensors, motion sensors, stuff like that? If so, the next time the perps come, the cops will come too. Just a thought that doesn't involve making your church look like Normandy. :)

Chris
 
Do we know when they come? Do they usually hit the place on a certain night?
Where would they sell the stuff?
Can we engrave or use UV pens to write the name of the Church on all of the ACs' parts?
Personally, I'd like to hide out and baseball bat these a$$oles.
Nothing beats a beating.
 
DannyinJapan said:
Where would they sell the stuff?
Can we engrave or use UV pens to write the name of the Church on all of the ACs' parts?
Click to expand...

Scrap metal buyers deal almost exclusively with crackheads in some areas. They don't care where the metal comes from. They pay the thieves half of what it's worth and immediately crush it or melt it before selling it to a legitimate scrap metal buyer.
 
uh, guys?

Does nobody else see the irony in outfitting a church to threaten mayhem to someone? Razorwire, guard dogs, baseball bats ... sounds more like the Romans that crucified Jesus than the people who grew out of his rag-tag group of followers.

Yeah, protect the stuff. Sink big metal posts into the ground, weld perforated 1/4" metal cages to them, completely surrounding the units. Weld in an access door, for when the things need to be repaired/replaced, and put on a big honking lock (or 4 or 5).

But read the Gospels to see who Jesus hung out with in his time. Today, he'd be living/dying with the crackheads, thieves and prostitutes who are stealing the copper. At least, that's essentially what did 2000 years ago.

It's up to the church to figure out how to be Christ to those people, not just how to protect its assets. Churches don't exist for themselves, if they're really trying to follow Christ. They exist for the world. This is an opportunity.

t.
 
Tom
I dont think your post was news to anybody here. It certainly was not news to me. That said, one might suggest that there is a certain pragmatism in the gospels that one might overlook. Some of the apostles carried swords. I assume these were for digging up potatoes?
 
Damned copper thieves should all be rounded up, gunned down, and bulldozed under a thick layer of toxic sludge.
 
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