The Church needs Razor Wire...

TomFetter said:
But read the Gospels to see who Jesus hung out with in his time. Today, he'd be living/dying with the crackheads, thieves and prostitutes who are stealing the copper. At least, that's essentially what did 2000 years ago.
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Uh, you've never actually interacted with any crackheads or methheads, have you? They would beat His ass and take His coinpurse and sandals.

Crack and meth make people evil. Someone forced into prostitution or even petty theft out of desperation may still have some goodness within them. Smokin' rock takes all the goodness away. There is no goodness to be found in such a one. They are truly lost souls beyond redemption. You can take them to detox, and therapy, and support groups, and give them a job and a 2nd or 3rd chance, but there's over a 95% chance that they're going to relapse. That is why I support the death penalty for those who peddle such poisons. If crack and meth vanished from the streets, our crime problem would be reduced by at least 50%.
 
I think that a point Tom made was really good, and I tried to hint it in my post. I think it would be a bad idea to make your church look more like a fortification than a house of God. I don't consider myself Christian, but I was raised Christian and have many Christian friends and family. I know, at least, what it meant to me. And I have to say that, if my house of God was rimmed by concertina wire, patrolled by attack dogs, and sporting all other methods of deterrence and defense, I would not feel comfortable worshiping in that space. And I think others--newcomers who may really need the comfort of the church--will be scared away and put off.

I strongly hope you guys go for a more subtle approach. Obviously, I'm not on the crackhead copper-thief's side here. I'm just saying that you can't ruin your house of worship on their account. Check into surveillance, security systems, maybe a sentry, or maybe just a strong-enough cage around the AC units. But whatever it is, make sure that you keep your church a church and don't hurt the place more than the thieves did.

:)

Peace,

Chris
 
I spoke with the priest in charge of the church 6 months ago and he said the same thing about Razor Wire. That it was "just too much".

Now he is angry as that every time he replaces the AC unit and all the pipes/wiring that goes with a new unit after it has been ripped from the building it is about $5000 that he has to go and find.

I have no idea how much more this church can afford. They have a gravel driveway and parking lot, and the place really does look pretty sad. According to my sister most of the members of the church are 65+ years old and living off of Federal and State assistance. Raising money comes from elsewhere.

I am hoping that my sister, an SMU grad student, will be able to raise some money through some student orginization.

I really am beginning to learn that theft of a Church's AC unit is the beginning of issues in South Dallas. Last night while watching the news I saw a story about copper theives that are stealing water mains. 17 have been stolen in the past week. They go around at night with a key, turn off your water, and take the steel/copper housing and sell it for scrap. They did it to a church in South Dallas for the second time last Saturday. They didn't know what was going on until the service started on Sunday. I went out online to look up the church and it is a few blocks from the church I am working with.

Perhaps the answer to this problem is less with the physical security of the church and more with the addictions of the community.
Although 1000 feet of 4 point barbed wire at Tractor supply is $50 and to rehab a community takes several lifetimes.
 
As someone who has spent a lifetime working on building systems in particular heating and airconditioning, I can say these things need enclosures to keep vandals out. AC units attract young vandals because they are vulnerable. A stick or similar sharp object have often been used to puncture the coils on these units with ease, killing the units, along with thefts of the sort described in this thread.

AC units, transformers, gas meters and other units should all be fenced in with good solid fencing, not some flimsy cheap stuff. A better arrangement would be a solid wall built around the wall, to not only make the units less visible, but to discourage vandals.

Building a good enclosure costs far less than dealing with the damage of repeated vandalism.
 
Danny?

In a single instance, Peter was described as carrying a sword. The salient bit was that Jesus told him to stop waving it about, and healed the man Peter'd hurt. While there's lots of warmaking in the OT, the Gospels show none.

Jesus went to great lengths, in fact, to distance himself from the personifying the War Leader type of Messiah image that the Jews of his time expected and wanted. Not his path.

I dunno what to do about thefts in churches. I grew up a Minister's kid, and over the years remember various break-ins where stuff from candlesticks to offering money was stolen. The point's not to set yourself up as an easy target. The point's to try and find a way to make contact with the folks doing this stuff. Not to let them off the hook, but to use the thing that's driving them to crime as an entry point for God.

Explicitly bringing God into the middle of this can be as transformative for the congregation as for the crooks. Happened in a couple of instances I could recite ... in downtown churches in Victoria, and Toronto. Who says that the folks God wants to address here are only the meth- and crack-heads?

Yeah, I've some experience with this stuff. Worked a few years on the front lines in Child Welfare; could tell a few stories of the abuse and abandonment that brought kids into care ... and the life it brought some of those kids to choose on the street. While the former client I'm thinking of in particular wasn't killed over crack or meth, he's just as dead.
 
Maybe we could get the attention of the local papers, which might get the city council people pounding on the door of the police chief which might get more cruisers in the area....
 
Good points, Danny and Dave. It does sound like an issue of a community problem. These dudes are out there, and that's the bigger issue. This seems like it could be a good rallying point to clean up the neighborhood and put a stop to this and more. Publicity never hurt a thing like this, and the more outcry there is, the better things will get.

Chris
 
The first idea that came to my mind is almost certainly not practical for a church full of people on fixed incomes, but I'll throw it out anyway: sell those A/C units and have a large ground-source heat pump installed. As soon as the grass grows back, nobody even knows what part of the property it's in, it would take many hours to dig even a small section up, and it would be very obvious what they were doing (what are those bulldozers doing at the church at 3 A.M.?). If there is any way that the funds could be raised (or even borrowed), a single unit may well be able to replace two or even all four of the old units (depending on their size), and the energy savings would mount up fast - ground-source units operate with a ~20 degree temperature differential, which is where heat pumps are most efficient. For heating, ground-source units are capable of 400% efficiency. Again, it requires raising a significant amount of capital up front, but over the long haul it is very economical. And as copper theft is on the rise, things are only going to get worse with time.

I gotta agree with Tom about the church's attitude towards these people - and it's easy to forget that's what they are. But remember, turning the other cheek is in response to a harmless but insulting gesture; I do not think Jesus had any intention of watching his people play victim to criminals like this.

SamuraiDave, if you could PM me some more details about this church, I may be able to help. I have some indirect connections with churches in that area as well as Dallas Christian College (a good source for volunteer labor). Often all it takes is making enough people aware of the need.
 
Punji Stakes , Big clamping jaws Bear trap hidden in the weeds, dedicated sniper. Seriously build a 1/2" rebar cage, pour a concrete footing around the ac unit and then anchor the cage to the footing via weld plates. You can even put hinges and a buffo lock on it for access in the event of repairs. If that doesn't work electrify the cage.
 
Wrap the AC unit in a metal mesh net, and charge the net to 10,000 volts with a capacitor bank of about 1000microfarads flash caps with instantaneous discharge, if it doesn't kill them they won't wake up for a few hours. Just be sure to keep a 10,000 volt supply to the caps or they discharge into the air.
 
don't they have hunters down there? if you look in places like sportsmansguide dot com you'll see these infrared digital motion photography boxes - not very expensive considering. one of these can be placed high off the ground pointing at the area, and photograph all kinds of things... people having sex, thieves, the priest digging holy potatoes, the sherif taking a nap ... ;)

so, what to do. well, first, if possible, they need to eliminate as much of the physical access as they can. so, a fence around the entire back area. if it's a pain in the ass to even get in, it'll be harder. if you can't see the units from off road, harder yet. perhaps physical wood mini huts should be made for these things as well. maybe cover the enclosures with camo mesh to obscure what's inside.

the mini containment fences can be really secured, but AC units do require maintenance so somebody has to be able to get in evenutally - that's a weak point.

motion lights. install a lot of motion lights to light up the entire area. have neighbors? whatever be alerted to call police. a motion alarm (silent) could be setup too. the priest sleeps on site or don't they do that no more? mmm.

and the biggy: community service. can they enlist their people who come to pray and rely on AC to have a nightly watch of 2-3 people, who could sit in their nice cars, with AC, and listen to ipods, or watch movies, and arm them with cell phones. eventually, someone will get caught.

in the meantime, they should perhaps elect a sherif that intends to arrest these copper thieves and crack down on crack. ;)

bladite
 
Tom, IRONY was half the reason this thread was composed, if I read the original author right.

Heck yes; protect Jesus with some RPG's...

ON a serious note be careful what you finally put on a fence or barricade because some things will go beyond what is legal. It's illegal to put a loaded shotgun tied to your front door in such a way the person breaking in will be shot. Hidden Razor wire may fall into that.

munk
 
Copper Thieves...I like the sound of that. A modern developement. Heavy Metal Bandits.



munk
 
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