A comment by a fellow forumite got me to thinking about something. Yes, I know, that's a dangerous thing, let alone at my age, but a thought has been bouncing around my head like a pinball. (Do kids even play pinball anymore?)
I read some of what other knife knuts say in other places, like recomending a large heavy sheath knife to a young person going over to Iraq, or the special heavy duty knives for survivlal. Thinking back to my youth, I think I was blessed by being exposed to men who where just back from a world war, and later, my own service in the army. I came to some conclusions that I don't wish to make an absolute statement on, but more of a editorial comment.
The humble slip joint pocket knife just may be a better friend to a soldier, sailor, or marine, than a wicked Fairbain comando dagger or true blue American knife like the MK2. Sure, Hollywood movies have dramatized and blown up some things, but what is really needed by a soldier or sailor, or even a marine like Mr. Van was?
I don't know how many so called fighting knives were made durring the war, but it seems like for every ex-soldier who came home with a Ka-bar or British made dagger, there was an army of guys with TL-29's, MLK scout knives, or even plain old Camillus or Imperial stockman knives that were purchased by the government and given a quick blade etch to that effect. I know my Uncle Charlie, Uncle Sonny, and our nieghbor Glen Brisco, all carried a pocket knife they had been issued durring the war. When I was a kid, and pestered Uncle charlie for some war stories, he'd just wave me off with "Aw kid, I din't see any action. Go talk to Sonny, he's got plenty to tell." But much later, when I was home on leave, we talked like adults, and he told me some of the things they went through. Most of all, I remember him telling me that after the first week working thier way in from the beach, you didn't want to carry anything you didn't really need. Of course the subject of knives came up, me being a knife knut, and I asked him if he carried anything in the way of a sheath knife for "just in case." He kind of shrugged, and said that was what his bayonet for his M1 Garrand was for. As far as cutting tool use, he said his TL-29 did everything he needed.
If ever there was a more humble working class knife than the old TL-29, I'm not sure what it must have been, exept maybe a barlow. Most of the TL-29's I saw from WW2 were Camillus, but Ulster, and Utica made them as well. About half of the old vets I run into down at the V.A. hospital have a beat up TL-29 in thier pocket. It's not an uncommon sight in the cafeteria to see an old vet take one out and cut something on his tray, since the plastic knives there seem unusually flimsy. Some have thier bail missing, some are swaybacked from years of heavy use. But they still serve. Not bad for a humble slip joint electricians knife.
The issue scout knife was another common knife. Based on the civilian scout knife, it was issued to soldiers, sailors, and the marines. The only differnce seems to be in some cases the stainless steel scales were marked with "U.S. Navy" or U.S. Marines" instead of the plain "U.S." markings that were the most common found. these things were an issue item from the south Pacific to European operations. My Uncle Sonny, who served in the 8th air force in England in the army air corp, was a fanatic on his. He wouldn't leave the house with out his scout knife. Only much later in life he became a sak fan. Even Mr. Van had one that he called his dirty work knife that he wouldn't use his beloved Remington scout knife on. Like the TL-29, the army-navy stores had bins full of these things for 75 cents when I was a kid.
Oddly enough, the only sailor in the family came home with a government issue Camillus stockman in his pocket. Uncle Mike served in England, where he was on a PT boat out of Falmouth. He carried that old stockman till it was worn down to a curio only knife. I've seen some of them like that, a pretty standard stockman with brown jigged plastic handles and carbon steel blades. It looks like a civilian purchase knife, that had U.S. Government etched on the main clip blade.
I can't begin to hazzard a guess at how many pocket knives were either made for the military to issue out to thier personel. And the bulk of them seemed to be basic slip joints patterns. Electricians knife, scout knife, stockman. And most were used well, and taken home to be used as a trusted companion for the rest of the soldiers or sailors life. There's some food for thought there.
Alot of very common pocket knives went and served in a very uncommon conflict. Not before, or since, has the world seen war on such a huge scale. And yet, a cutting tool was still just a cutting tool. If it folded up and went in a pocket, so much the better. A cutting tool that was basicly a version of one they may have used in civilian life.
I know from my own more recent army service, that they were still issuing the same knives. My very first knife I got when I was out of basic training, was the all steel scout knife. They had boxes of them in the supply room, and handed them out like lollypops at the doctors office. There were even TL-29's still being handed out, complete with the leather sheath that held the needle nose pliers/wire cutters piggy back with the TL-29. Eveyone had a pocket knife. Yet, in my whole time in the army, I saw very few sheath knives being carried. Even when we were based right next to a group from the 10th Special Forces, sheath knives were rare. But by then, there was one knife that took over, and soon everybody in the army seemed to have one; the Buck folding hunter.
A folding knife, with on 1/8th inch thick blade that locked open, it took over the place. It didn't seem to matter if you were an airborne ranger or a chairborne clerk at a headquaters company typing out forms, they had the black leather pouch on the web belt. That Buck was more than capable of doing everything that had to be done with a knife. Maybe that's why it seems so over the top to be recomending a heavy sheath knife like a RAT something, to a young person going over to Iraq today. Modern warfare has quadrupled the firepower of the soldier, and between the service rifle, 9mm service pistol, and logistics and air support, the chances of a hand to hand encounter seems slim to none. Our niece came home from her service there, and had been issued a Leatherman tool, that she says was one of the most useful things she could have. She was a sandbox sailor with a bunch of marines in communications, and she had a tool bag with all kinds of tools, but The Leatherman saw much use. The knife blade was used for all sorts of pocket knife type things, from MRE packages, to opening boxes of care packages from home. She told us that most of the soldiers and marines carry a one hand lockblade of some type, and that some company comanders don't even allow the carry of fixed blade knives.
So it seems like we've went from humble TL-29's to multitools. I guess what works well in civilian life does so as well in a war.
I read some of what other knife knuts say in other places, like recomending a large heavy sheath knife to a young person going over to Iraq, or the special heavy duty knives for survivlal. Thinking back to my youth, I think I was blessed by being exposed to men who where just back from a world war, and later, my own service in the army. I came to some conclusions that I don't wish to make an absolute statement on, but more of a editorial comment.
The humble slip joint pocket knife just may be a better friend to a soldier, sailor, or marine, than a wicked Fairbain comando dagger or true blue American knife like the MK2. Sure, Hollywood movies have dramatized and blown up some things, but what is really needed by a soldier or sailor, or even a marine like Mr. Van was?
I don't know how many so called fighting knives were made durring the war, but it seems like for every ex-soldier who came home with a Ka-bar or British made dagger, there was an army of guys with TL-29's, MLK scout knives, or even plain old Camillus or Imperial stockman knives that were purchased by the government and given a quick blade etch to that effect. I know my Uncle Charlie, Uncle Sonny, and our nieghbor Glen Brisco, all carried a pocket knife they had been issued durring the war. When I was a kid, and pestered Uncle charlie for some war stories, he'd just wave me off with "Aw kid, I din't see any action. Go talk to Sonny, he's got plenty to tell." But much later, when I was home on leave, we talked like adults, and he told me some of the things they went through. Most of all, I remember him telling me that after the first week working thier way in from the beach, you didn't want to carry anything you didn't really need. Of course the subject of knives came up, me being a knife knut, and I asked him if he carried anything in the way of a sheath knife for "just in case." He kind of shrugged, and said that was what his bayonet for his M1 Garrand was for. As far as cutting tool use, he said his TL-29 did everything he needed.
If ever there was a more humble working class knife than the old TL-29, I'm not sure what it must have been, exept maybe a barlow. Most of the TL-29's I saw from WW2 were Camillus, but Ulster, and Utica made them as well. About half of the old vets I run into down at the V.A. hospital have a beat up TL-29 in thier pocket. It's not an uncommon sight in the cafeteria to see an old vet take one out and cut something on his tray, since the plastic knives there seem unusually flimsy. Some have thier bail missing, some are swaybacked from years of heavy use. But they still serve. Not bad for a humble slip joint electricians knife.
The issue scout knife was another common knife. Based on the civilian scout knife, it was issued to soldiers, sailors, and the marines. The only differnce seems to be in some cases the stainless steel scales were marked with "U.S. Navy" or U.S. Marines" instead of the plain "U.S." markings that were the most common found. these things were an issue item from the south Pacific to European operations. My Uncle Sonny, who served in the 8th air force in England in the army air corp, was a fanatic on his. He wouldn't leave the house with out his scout knife. Only much later in life he became a sak fan. Even Mr. Van had one that he called his dirty work knife that he wouldn't use his beloved Remington scout knife on. Like the TL-29, the army-navy stores had bins full of these things for 75 cents when I was a kid.
Oddly enough, the only sailor in the family came home with a government issue Camillus stockman in his pocket. Uncle Mike served in England, where he was on a PT boat out of Falmouth. He carried that old stockman till it was worn down to a curio only knife. I've seen some of them like that, a pretty standard stockman with brown jigged plastic handles and carbon steel blades. It looks like a civilian purchase knife, that had U.S. Government etched on the main clip blade.
I can't begin to hazzard a guess at how many pocket knives were either made for the military to issue out to thier personel. And the bulk of them seemed to be basic slip joints patterns. Electricians knife, scout knife, stockman. And most were used well, and taken home to be used as a trusted companion for the rest of the soldiers or sailors life. There's some food for thought there.
Alot of very common pocket knives went and served in a very uncommon conflict. Not before, or since, has the world seen war on such a huge scale. And yet, a cutting tool was still just a cutting tool. If it folded up and went in a pocket, so much the better. A cutting tool that was basicly a version of one they may have used in civilian life.
I know from my own more recent army service, that they were still issuing the same knives. My very first knife I got when I was out of basic training, was the all steel scout knife. They had boxes of them in the supply room, and handed them out like lollypops at the doctors office. There were even TL-29's still being handed out, complete with the leather sheath that held the needle nose pliers/wire cutters piggy back with the TL-29. Eveyone had a pocket knife. Yet, in my whole time in the army, I saw very few sheath knives being carried. Even when we were based right next to a group from the 10th Special Forces, sheath knives were rare. But by then, there was one knife that took over, and soon everybody in the army seemed to have one; the Buck folding hunter.
A folding knife, with on 1/8th inch thick blade that locked open, it took over the place. It didn't seem to matter if you were an airborne ranger or a chairborne clerk at a headquaters company typing out forms, they had the black leather pouch on the web belt. That Buck was more than capable of doing everything that had to be done with a knife. Maybe that's why it seems so over the top to be recomending a heavy sheath knife like a RAT something, to a young person going over to Iraq today. Modern warfare has quadrupled the firepower of the soldier, and between the service rifle, 9mm service pistol, and logistics and air support, the chances of a hand to hand encounter seems slim to none. Our niece came home from her service there, and had been issued a Leatherman tool, that she says was one of the most useful things she could have. She was a sandbox sailor with a bunch of marines in communications, and she had a tool bag with all kinds of tools, but The Leatherman saw much use. The knife blade was used for all sorts of pocket knife type things, from MRE packages, to opening boxes of care packages from home. She told us that most of the soldiers and marines carry a one hand lockblade of some type, and that some company comanders don't even allow the carry of fixed blade knives.
So it seems like we've went from humble TL-29's to multitools. I guess what works well in civilian life does so as well in a war.
