The Fastest Draw....

Much has been said on which blade or knife style deploys faster, and from neck-sheath, pocket-clip, and waist carry and what-not.

I just wondered if any of the tactical/combat knife shows (are there any?) ever sponsor a quick-draw type contest to see which knife/method is fastest in regards to:

1) Drawing the knife from a standing position with the hands at the side

2) Striking a paper target to confirm the intent of the draw (as opposed to just whippin' it out)

Seems like an easy test to devise with photo-detectors to register when the contestant's knife/hand enters the "strike zone", synched with a clock that turns on a light at the "go".

Obviously not the kind of thing you'd want to promote at a typical knife show...but it would be an interesting test. Might settle some of the drop-open vs thumbstud arguments, and tip-down vs tip-up, etc ... where many die-hards even compare their non-autos to automatics and this would be a way
to "put-up".

Personally, I've never had the need for speed (not this kind at least) in the past 40 years, but the long-winded arguments I see makes me wonder if anyone's ever put their methods to a reasonably objective test.

Any thoughts?
 
i have not made a scintific test,but i have been carring knives for the last 15 years and went through several knife seminars.
i can say i am pretty quick,used to be the fastest with a spyderco[police&military].
but i musr admit since i had my emerson commander it is in my eyes the fastest opening knife i ever encountered,if such a draw competition will take place i will put my money on the commander.
scorpio.
 
S

Scarman

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I think that would be a good thing.
I personally, feel pretty confident with my Military.
I can get it out and ready in less then a second. As for striking a target....well that will remain to be seen.

Scorpio,
You say the Commander is pretty quick. Is it that noticeably different then the Military and the Police(that must be one quick blade deployment). Is the wave really all that?

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The greatest thought that has ever entered my mind is that one day I will have to stand before a Holy God and give an account of my life.
*Daniel Webster

Rev 20:12

 
I'm on the fence on this one. "The Wave" really does work as advertised, but I feel that the "drop" method is as fast or faster with practice.

BUT "the wave" is a no-brainer. Deploying effectively with the drop takes a lot of practice, whereas the wave works so easily it's almost tricky not to open the knife quickly (which might be a problem under some circumstances). You just draw the knife and it opens, little or no training required (yeah, you should still become comfortable with your grip and moving directly into a strike etc.)

So I'll give "the wave" the edge in ease-of-use, though I think speed's a toss-up. Of course, with "the wave" you have only one choice of knife, whereas with the hole you have dozens...

-Drew
 
The Wave is definitely all that, it would win any speed contest. I don't know exactly how reliable it is -- do any of you experienced guys ever mess up from time to time, by missing the edge of your pocket or whatever?

I just wish Emerson would license that feature out, or someday built a knife that actually interests me in any way
frown.gif


Joe
 
Deployment and strike seem to be two separate issues, that's why I mentioned the goal of actually hitting a target.

Could it be that some methods of deployment moves your hand/arm in a direction away from the target, and a fast deployment may mean a slow strike?

Like the Mig Foxbat... just goin' fast don't mean you win the dogfights
smile.gif
 
I would have to say drawing a small fixed blade(like my Patrolman) from the handle down position, hanging from a front pocket, or belt (kydex sheath). After the knife is drawn, tip is automatically facing up and forward. That is where the target will usually be.


Just my opinion,

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Lynn GriffithMy website
GriffithKN@aol.com


 
Longden,

Deployment and strike shouldn't be two separate issues, though focussing too much on the "fast draw" can make it seem that way. A proper drawing technique should flow smoothly into a strike, and this can make a big difference when compared simply practicing to "have a knife fast." Some "fast" drawing techniques put you in poor position to strike, while some "slow" techniques start to look much better when the whole draw-and-strike motion is considered.
It's not about being *ready* to strike (I made this mistake for too long in my own practice) - by the time you decide to get that folder out (which constitutes use of lethal force) it should be on its way to striking a target. If you practice merely getting it into your hand, the advantage of surprise is wasted.

-Drew
 
Think about the circumstances of a real fight. It is not going to be anything like high noon on the streets of Loredo, right?

If you are deploying a knife for defense, you are presumably faced by an assailant holding a knife already drawn, or a gun. Maybe the guy is already pummeling or stabbing you. Are you going to be able to execute a lightning quick-draw and strike under those circumstances? If the assailant is serious about stabbing or shooting you, you will be stabbed or shot before you can Clint Eastwood the guy.

I think much more emphasis should be placed on drawing under control than on shaving a tenth of a second off of drawing and striking a static target. I think practicing a controlled and protected draw into a sound basic defensive movement is the right idea, as mentioned by Lynn Griffith and Corduroy.

 
Preach on. I, for one, and still learning what all this means. I agree with all that you said, that's why I linked draw and strike together in the "test".

I might not be clear on the drop technique using the blade-hole. It seems that pulling the knife out via the blade requires a slight downward snap to drop the handle open ... doesn't that momentary snap go against the direction of the strike?

I might have to find that copy of Combat Knives with the "openings" article.

Seems like it'd make an interesting contest, tho the speed of the draw is probably an over-rated, over-hyped and over-discussed topic.
 
Steve, I agree that the speed of the draw is not much of any real worth in terms of practical defense.

In that sense, it seems kind of like the slicing the hanging rope contest among knife-makers.... fun to watch but how many of us have to do that?

My interest was purely due to all the hormonal discussions we have here about this or that method/knife being "fast".

Two handed and slow as molasses suits me just fine since I'm as likely to encounter a need for a fast draw as often as running into hanging ropes that need to be swiped.

Forbid that we should start talking about reality
smile.gif
 
Longden - A balloon makes an excellent target.

Hitting a "start" button to start the timer and have everyone's hand in the same place when beginning.

The balloon is behind a hole (like in a piece of plywood). The blade passing into the hole stops the timer. The popped ballon verifies contact.

There are some front break away sheaths, I believe Maringer made some that begin the strike before exiting the sheath. You would probably have to make more than one class, eg; folders, fixed & those that are at rest on the hand. (ring blade, wrist sheath, etc).

Would be an interesting event.

sal
 
Sal,

Ever the one for effect.

I liked the balloon idea, a nice touch with the right snappy effect.

I would keep it simple in terms of classes and just have concealed and exposed ... well maybe also folding and fixed.
 
Sal,
The test you describe sounds to be very effective. I am not sure of the hole in plywood idea though. Seems like that would limit the competitor to one type of striking tecnique. Thrusting. Many martial arts, have many types of offensive moves.

All in all though a great test idea.

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Lynn GriffithMy website
GriffithKN@aol.com


 
Steve,

Your emphasis on a secure and reliable draw is well-placed. I'm not sure I agree with you that, after this requirement is met (a combination of technique and practice) speed is not important.

My thinking is that if I am approached by an armed individual, I will hand over possession or do as they ask unless they ask me to accompany them somewhere (this usually means they want to do something to you they cannot do where you are). If they want to insult me or even mildly injure me, I'd prefer to take that rather than escalate to a lethal situation. Of course, I may not be so kindly asked, I may simply be grabbed when my guard is down.

Either way, once my mind decides that this situation is unavoidably a violent one and I must resort to force, how quickly I can bring that force to bear (out of a holster, sheath or pocket and into the BG) is ABSOLUTELY an advantage. I do not intend to stand around menacing someone - any cop or lawyer will tell you never top threaten lethal force you don't intend to use. If I produce a weapon, it's because I'm convinced that no other way out of the situation would have worked. And my sole goal, still, is escape. If I stand around obviously deploying a weapon, I am far more likely to initiate a fight with an awares opponent than I am to surprise some unlucky BG, hit, and get away intact.

This hangup with deployment speeds isn't just a gunfighter mentality, IMO. It has real bearing on your ability to surprise an assailant (who 99% of the time thinks you are unarmed, or they wouldn't have picked you as a target), strike effectively before they can defend, and then get away. With the emphasis on get away.

On a totally separate note, the "Yataghan" was an ancient sword with a two part break-away sheath held by a single cord that was cut when the first strike was delivered with the sheathed weapon.

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-Corduroy
"Why else would a bear want a pocket?"

Little Bear Knives
Drew Gleason:
adg@student.umass.edu
 
Okay for me, the fastest is draw is w/ the Spyderco Moran w/ the crossdraw sheath worn IWB along the strong side hip. The handle is about 45 degrees toward the front, the edge facing out.

This is well a bit embarassing. Almost every day I go to a public mens room and when nobody is around, I draw and stab/cut at a hanging piece of washroom paper. The paper near the faucets. After doing the cuts, I examine to see if I actually hit the target. Sometimes I don't. My worst miss was hitting the metal dispenser. Understand that my target is about the half the width of a mousepad.

Perceptually, my time w/ a folder seems longer perhaps because of the opening stage but it's a hair's length. Generally, strong side carry or just behind the hip bone is what I believe is fastest.
 
I have personally watched Sal pull his knife and he is fast as hell!

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com


 
Lynn - You're right. Scratch the hole. Maybe hang it on a string.

Drew - it doesn't have to be any more functional than target shooting, or downhill skiing for that matter. Just for fun, personal developmentand hope it's never funtional.

sal
 
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