The "FEET AS A WEAPON" To Block A "KNIFE"

S

stdalire

Joined
Sep 8, 1999
Messages
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Before I get off from work I would like to post this topic to get good advises and knowledge from all of you.

How many of us ever use, to use the feet to block an incoming knife. Have you ever dared to use your feet to block a knife when someone is about to stab you, or did you use it if someone will hit you with a stick. What is the advantages/disadvantages if we use it.

Thanks in advance for your input.

 
Hi Guy!

I'm not a great fighter so I haven't done that...the best I do is to handle the weapon attack with evasion or a hand tech., then kick, and that has had some success.

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The Fighting Old Man

 
I have never liked the kick the knife/gun out of their hand technique. I prefer to use my feet for getting my tail out of the way and attacking low-line targets.

I subscribe to Professor William "Thunder Bolt" Chow's (founder of Chinese Kara-ho Kenpo Karate) philosophy on kicking high. Prof. Chow said "If you want to kick a man in the face, break his knees first."
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Respectfully,

Dave Fulton
 
Dave: Your statement "If you want to kick a man in the face, break his knees first." I cannot rebuttle that and it is a fact that, while a man is on his knees, it is so easy to reach the face already.

Well, I have asked the questions if any one uses the kick to defend a knife or a stick because I have seen many instructor and several demonstration of martial arts groups that they utilize the front kick when a knife is being thrust to the abdomen. I saw many also, who demonstrated that they use a Crescent kick to block an incoming knife also. Perhaps some of those who do it are real expert on that particular technique.

Others also use a high front kick in blocking a stick from up. Some I've seen use a high back kick in stopping a stick.

If we analyze it, I think it is possible if it will be done with precision and timing.

It is like other martial arts player who are on their knees and you will attacked them with knife or kicks but still they can block or get hold of you. If you haven't seen one yet, I have seen a demonstration already.

As to the Crescent kick, it looks applicable in blocking an incoming knife thrust.

If you can picture what I am explaining you can replay it in your practice.

Thanks
 
At my facility we do a lot of scenario based tactical training. We use "paint knives" in our scenarios. They leave a nice red gash wherever the knife makes contact. Many people try to block the knife as it's coming in as a "reflex action' a kind of "oh crap, here it comes!" The problem is that it does'nt come in just one direction and it's not coming slow and easy. It's "flailing"!!!!!
I don't care what you train if you stand and try to "duke it out" against a knife you will have gashes up your groin, accross you eye lids etc. There are functional methodologies for dealing with a blade, no majic is involved however, it is always wickedly dangerous. Without getting into specifics, kicking as a "blocking" tech is not a real good idea, but, sometimes it may be all you got. I do not teach that but I understnd how and why someone might attempt it.

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Demi Barbito
Full Instructor
JKD Concepts/Kali
PFS of SLO
www.thegrid.net/pfs
 
The main reason why I switched from TKD to FMA was because of the knife defense applications taught. The majority were kick defenses against a thrust (#5) or reverse grip/ice pick (#8 strikes). At the time I was learning the techniques, they worked only with stiff striking technques with a semi cooperative opponent.

It was only after experimentation with other technqiues in a flowing manner (much like sumbra prior to getting into the FMA) that I learned the kicking blocks or technques were not going to work on the street.

Typically, I will try to use kicks as a part of my knife striking pattern, to work the high and low targets of the body to break the opponent's concentration and overwhelm them with combination. The kicks will go no higher than the knee. Also they are used to break up the opponent's footwork, balance and movement to make an opening for the knife strikes.

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Call Me Al
 
The main reason why I switched from TKD to FMA was because of the knife defense applications taught. The majority were kick defenses against a thrust (#5) or reverse grip/ice pick (#8 strikes). At the time I was learning the techniques, they worked only with stiff striking technques with a semi cooperative opponent.

It was only after experimentation with other technqiues in a flowing manner (much like sumbra prior to getting into the FMA) that I learned the kicking blocks or technques were not going to work on the street.

Typically, I will try to use kicks as a part of my knife striking pattern, to work the high and low targets of the body to break the opponent's concentration and overwhelm them with combination. The kicks will go no higher than the knee. Also they are used to break up the opponent's footwork, balance and movement to make an opening for the knife strikes.

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Call Me Al
 
I remember being taught when studying Hapkido
cresent kicks along with the front leg kicking techs against the knife thrust. I think they're good excercises for kicking development.

The koreans reasons for using their legs as the primary weapons vs empty hand dates back
to when the Koreans were under seiged by the Japanesse Shogun who when attacked were riding horseback. And since they weren't allowed weapons they figured by learning to execute high kicking techniques to the horse head and then bring down the rider. This is just the a real short version of what the Koreans did to defend their land.

So this gives me the understanding of why they would pass down these type of kicking techniques. However the rules of warfare have changed since then. Thats how they fought in those days, its not the recommended way of disarmning, especially when ther are so many variables that can actually happen in a knife encounter during a fight. The distance has to be just right to pull the kicks off. Should your opponet blitz in to stab you, their primary weapons are now of no use.

The FMA has given me a much better understanding of how to use my legs to place myself just within striking distance,and remain just outside his reach by using the male and female traingles for an example.

Its a good kicking drill but I don't think I would use it since I know other means to defend against a knife attack.
 
I remember the crescent kick/block techniques from my TKD training years ago. IMHO, they are impractical even against unarmed, punch-type attacks, simply because moving the arms is a lot faster and easier to learn. Once You lift one leg of the ground, You severely limit Your mobility - footwork is reduced to hopping around. The worst thing about these techniques is that if your leg is injured during the technique (either by a knife slash/stab or by blunt impact with a stick), even if You don't fall to the ground, Your ability to run away is gone. If an arm gets cut/stabbed during a knife attack, yes it will hurt, probably do permanent nerve/tendon damage, but unless overtaken by shock, You can still flee.

Take care,
Tobse !
 
Stdalire,
Good question.
From my training here's what I have discovered.
It's definetly NOT a good idea to kick, unless it's all you have got !
I believe this was pointed out on a earlier post. It's the truth !

A fighter w/ a knife does'nt always and if he's skilled practically NEVER attack in what demonstrations show as a "Sraight Line Attack" e.g. Overhead or abdominal Thrust.
A skilled player will and does however redirect or indirect direct his/her attack.
That is the truth of real Knife/Stick etc.
Weapon combatives.
I'm always training for REAL scenarios that way I'm not so duped into false security.
Edged Weapons are an absolute horror to deal w/ on a truly committed attack. I need and want all my sensitivity and FINE motor skills availible at that instants notice to
return to sender, deflect, check, parry
redirect, counter etc.
IMHO

------------------
"This is the law:
There is no possible victory in defense, The Sword is more important than the shield, And skill is more important than either, The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental."

 
My first day of work her ein the Kingdom and I have read all your posts.

Thanks to all of you for all the opinions given.

Actually, I had brought up this topic because I had experienced that I had an encounter with someone who had already drawn his knife and he cannot just thrust his knife on me because I am also on the defense move with my hands. I planned to kick him a strong frontal kick to give a surprise or to stun him but I have doubt that if I cannot put him down with my one strong front thrust kick, then I will not be in good position. Or if I will kick him he might simultaneously stab my feet. Thus I did not use my feet on that incident. After that incident. One of the bystander said to me, why I did not kick the guy. So, it makes me think of it, if I did make the correct move or not. The incident went fine and the agressor retreat but I feel like I have shortcoming of my moves based on the bystander observation and comments.

Thanks,

 
then maybe it would have been the bystanders mistake....it seems you didn't make that mistake and did fine. your still here. i do not in any way think kicking is the best option in a situation such as the one you faced. most reasons listed above.

smile.gif
 
The important thing is you were around to make the post. We can thank movies and TV for the misconceptions a bystander may have about how you handled the situation.

If your kick was anywhere close to the range of his knife you would have probably been cut.

Be Safe


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Call Me Al
 
I took the family paint balling some time back. My wife and I got bored with the "take down the crack house" scenarios so we went to the side and took off the long barrels and practiced live fire disarms with each other. Dang they hurt, too, good incentive to do it right!

Anyway, one of the staff came up to bs and told us that he like to kick the gun out of the hand - "it's the best move." Our son was standing around watching and when he heard that he said, "Hey, how do you do that...show me" and held out the gun. He stiched the guy with three pellets after he started to move and before his foot got up...bs walked away.

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The Fighting Old Man
 
Sochin,

Great idea! Other folks I've seen work this have had to resort to saying "bang" when working disarms. Question: How did you manage the disarms without damaging fingers because of the triggerguard? (or was this what you were talking about when you said working this was 'painful')

greg
 
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