The fine line between over-built folder and EDC fixed blade...

orangehero said:
What happened to your 561? What specifically about the steel liner and blade design compromises its ruggedness? Also it should have ball bearings and not washers at the pivot.
Click to expand...

The steel liner is to thin compared to the other side. One side is really rugged, but this doesn't matter all that much as the other side is really weak. In my experience the steel side liner bent a little in use, making the pivot miss aligned and causing weird blade play. The ball bearings got full of sand and mud and didn't function that well after that. I also dislike how the handle gets wider at the bottom then it is at the top, this forces you into a grip where your index finger is tightly holding onto the knife, so if your doing any kind of whacking with the knife you get hotspots quick. I messed up the knife trying to cut a flat side onto a branch so i could dig into a creek bed with it as i needed some water bad. The ball bearings are like air suspension on a cadillac, its cool when it works and makes the ride feel smoother but its not necessary to the cars overall function, and when it fails it fails in a big way. The blade also thins out too quickly in my opinion for rugged use, this is a problem if I'm trying to baton some wood or strip some bark. Someone could easily say "you shouldn't be using a folder for that, the knifes not built up for that level of use you should take a fixed blade". As i side i like to do minimalist hiking and I've found a folder that can hold up to all these things and its made by Emerson. My main problem with carrying a fixed blade is one time i was out hiking and i decided to go into town and get some supplies. Than the cops pulled up and started harassing me over my knife, then they took me down to the station and gave me a delousing well they all made jokes. Then i had a flash back and snapped, beat them up and escaped on a dirt bike.
 
OnionPoptarts said:
The steel liner is to thin compared to the other side. One side is really rugged, but this doesn't matter all that much as the other side is really weak. In my experience the steel side liner bent a little in use, making the pivot miss aligned and causing weird blade play. The ball bearings got full of sand and mud and didn't function that well after that. I also dislike how the handle gets wider at the bottom then it is at the top, this forces you into a grip where your index finger is tightly holding onto the knife, so if your doing any kind of whacking with the knife you get hotspots quick. I messed up the knife trying to cut a flat side onto a branch so i could dig into a creek bed with it as i needed some water bad. The ball bearings are like air suspension on a cadillac, its cool when it works and makes the ride feel smoother but its not necessary to the cars overall function, and when it fails it fails in a big way. The blade also thins out too quickly in my opinion for rugged use, this is a problem if I'm trying to baton some wood or strip some bark. Someone could easily say "you shouldn't be using a folder for that, the knifes not built up for that level of use you should take a fixed blade". As i side i like to do minimalist hiking and I've found a folder that can hold up to all these things and its made by Emerson. My main problem with carrying a fixed blade is one time i was out hiking and i decided to go into town and get some supplies. Than the cops pulled up and started harassing me over my knife, then they took me down to the station and gave me a delousing well they all made jokes. Then i had a flash back and snapped, beat them up and escaped on a dirt bike.
Click to expand...

If you are not trolling at this point, You have an unusual life style. I'm glad your Emerson keeps up. I have used my linerless Spydercos for some of the stuff you said with no harm, but I'm no Rambo.
 
Well I like them both kinds of blades and just like to switch it up. Needless to say I carry overbuilt folders more often as I just love folders and appreciate the craftsmenship and usually they are more concealable length wise. I do however like carrying small fixed blades as well and as I make my own knives those are usually the fixed blades I carry as it makes a good conversation piece as well as Zi can test my knife and appreciate it since I built it by hand. Would love to be able to eventually build a folder but that would not be for a long time.
 
I really struggled with this one and... I now EDC an SnG.
Why? It's over built, just in case. It's just the right size, not too big or too small. The pocket clip is perfect. It's light in weight and the HT on Striders knives is incredible.
rolf
 
ShooterMcgavin said:
Where is that line for you, where you think "I won't buy that over-built folder because a small fixed blade will easily surpass it"?

Carrying a hefty, over-built brute of a folder isn't always about hacking trees daily. It's about the love of the knife you have with you; I get that. I'm just considering that, there are so many high quality, small fixed-blades out there today, I sometimes wonder if I really want to carry an Adamas, Contego, Tuff, or 0561. Maybe an Izula is all I really needed? :)
Click to expand...


Now that's an interesting question. Especially since it's rather free of context and, for me, context is everything. Where is the knife going to be used? For what? How will it get there and be stored? Who else will be there? All of things matter, which explains why a folder with a 3" blade will be called a weapon by somebody standing at an office gathering while cutting a cake with a 12" fixed blade (aka kitchen knife).

In any event, I find the cut off to be around the 3.5" to 4" blade length.

IMO, above 3.5" (blade) a folder stops being a pocket knife. My Opinel #10 and Buck 110 both have blades in the 3.75" area. Regardless of weight, it's really just a tick beyond what I want to pocket carry. At that point, they become folding knives to be carried either in a holster or more likely, in my pack. There's a place for folders this big in my life, to be sure. They take up less room compared to a fixed blade, weigh less (my Opinel) since it lacks the need of a sheath and is more people friendly if I need to use it around the general public. Despite their size, they are folding pocket knives and generally less threatening than fixed blades.

Below 4", I don't understand the appeal of a fixed blade. I *could* understand the appeal of easier clean up (dressing game, a kitchen paring knife) and I *could* understand the appeal of easier deployment if I worked in a trade that demanded constant access to a knife (clipless friction sheath). But these aren't a part of my around town experience. And honestly, I've not found a task I could throw at my Opinel #9 that a similarly sized fixed blade could do better. So, at 3.5" (blade) and below, I see nothing but downsides with fixed blades.
 
OnionPoptarts said:
The steel liner is to thin compared to the other side. One side is really rugged, but this doesn't matter all that much as the other side is really weak. In my experience the steel side liner bent a little in use, making the pivot miss aligned and causing weird blade play. The ball bearings got full of sand and mud and didn't function that well after that. I also dislike how the handle gets wider at the bottom then it is at the top, this forces you into a grip where your index finger is tightly holding onto the knife, so if your doing any kind of whacking with the knife you get hotspots quick. I messed up the knife trying to cut a flat side onto a branch so i could dig into a creek bed with it as i needed some water bad. The ball bearings are like air suspension on a cadillac, its cool when it works and makes the ride feel smoother but its not necessary to the cars overall function, and when it fails it fails in a big way. The blade also thins out too quickly in my opinion for rugged use, this is a problem if I'm trying to baton some wood or strip some bark. Someone could easily say "you shouldn't be using a folder for that, the knifes not built up for that level of use you should take a fixed blade". As i side i like to do minimalist hiking and I've found a folder that can hold up to all these things and its made by Emerson. My main problem with carrying a fixed blade is one time i was out hiking and i decided to go into town and get some supplies. Than the cops pulled up and started harassing me over my knife, then they took me down to the station and gave me a delousing well they all made jokes. Then i had a flash back and snapped, beat them up and escaped on a dirt bike.
Click to expand...

Not to be insulting, but this is one of the dumber things I've read recently.
 
Rolf I completely agree....Striders are great knives! I now EDC either Les George FM-1s or Pohan Leu Bluephins(3.25" version) because the fit and finish is perfect and they are stout enough to do whatever I need. I actually like to EDC fixed blades in the fall/winter/spring when I wear jackets......either one is perfect and usable when needed.

Lycosa said:
I really struggled with this one and... I now EDC an SnG.
Why? It's over built, just in case. It's just the right size, not too big or too small. The pocket clip is perfect. It's light in weight and the HT on Striders knives is incredible.
rolf
Click to expand...
 
pinnah said:
Now that's an interesting question. Especially since it's rather free of context and, for me, context is everything. Where is the knife going to be used? For what? How will it get there and be stored? Who else will be there? All of things matter, which explains why a folder with a 3" blade will be called a weapon by somebody standing at an office gathering while cutting a cake with a 12" fixed blade (aka kitchen knife).

In any event, I find the cut off to be around the 3.5" to 4" blade length.

IMO, above 3.5" (blade) a folder stops being a pocket knife. My Opinel #10 and Buck 110 both have blades in the 3.75" area. Regardless of weight, it's really just a tick beyond what I want to pocket carry. At that point, they become folding knives to be carried either in a holster or more likely, in my pack. There's a place for folders this big in my life, to be sure. They take up less room compared to a fixed blade, weigh less (my Opinel) since it lacks the need of a sheath and is more people friendly if I need to use it around the general public. Despite their size, they are folding pocket knives and generally less threatening than fixed blades.

Below 4", I don't understand the appeal of a fixed blade. I *could* understand the appeal of easier clean up (dressing game, a kitchen paring knife) and I *could* understand the appeal of easier deployment if I worked in a trade that demanded constant access to a knife (clipless friction sheath). But these aren't a part of my around town experience. And honestly, I've not found a task I could throw at my Opinel #9 that a similarly sized fixed blade could do better. So, at 3.5" (blade) and below, I see nothing but downsides with fixed blades.
Click to expand...

I know what you are saying. I keep looking at the Contego and the CS Voyager large clip and I think to myself, do I really need the length, or am I buying something like that for the overbuilt pivot and lock? If it's just the latter, then I might as well get an Izula II and call it good.
 
OnionPoptarts said:
Im not trolling. The thing about the police is a Rambo reference if you don't know it.
Click to expand...

LOL! I thought it sounded familar.

I think a large folder for edc is the bee's knee's; there's also the fun or gadget factor of different lock types and variety materials used in a single folder versus a majority of edc production fixed blades which can be quite boring...
 
OnionPoptarts said:
Im not trolling. The thing about the police is a Rambo reference if you don't know it.
Click to expand...

Did you see my nod to your reference? But seriously, do you honestly think you bent the liner when scraping bark or even hacking limbs? I've done both of those things with a linerless pinned spyderco with no damage to the lock up or scales. I don't even have a zt and feel like the 0561 needs a defender in this thread.
 
Which Emerson do you recommend then? The three models that you mentioned previously have both a thin titanium liner and a thin titanium liner lock as well as a thinner blade than the 0560. Although it depends on how and what you compare, the titanium liner should be weaker than a steel one.
 
Last edited:
Though I am answering this thread without reading it, and what I have to say may already have been said, I haven't found a folding knife that I consider overbuilt.

That said, I am talking about the folders I have actually bought. Now I have seen some very heavy duty folders I would not buy because of their blade style, or clip placement (either it is deep carry or I will not consider it, though I do love my 0600). I did admire the rest of their build and would love to see some with a deep-carry clip and my choice of blade style.

But I have to admit that the overbuilt folder's I carry rarely see the light of day as 9999% of what I need a knife to do is carried out by my Victorinox Fieldmaster! I carry a fanny pack due to the spinal cord stroke I suffered in July 2012, and I carry a CS TiLite VI in it, along with the SAK I mentioned. But not to be outdone I do have my BM 275BK Adamas in my right front pocket today.

Overbuilt folders are awesome.............even if all they do is ride around!:D
 
I have done both switching between both for a few years. I work in an office where I prefer a folder over a fixed blade. For concealment, my small fixed blade fits nicely in a pocket sheath with a leatherman PST. The down side it takes up the entire pocket and I would rather it not share the space with my cell. For most EDC tasks, either would work well
 
Last edited:
I like overbuilds because it makes you feel like you are carrying a heavy duty piece of beautifully machined tool. Vs just a pocket knife. I love holding a solid chunk of Steel because it feels so solid! not because I'm afraid my other knives would break.
 
I saw it. Yeah batoning apart wood, using it to pry apart wood, whacking tree branches, stuff like that mostly. Not sure when I bent the liner as the sand and dirt got into the knife real good early on, and I tried washing it all out by submerging the knife in a stream and shaking it around, but it didn't get it all out so I decided to just not close the knife for the rest of the trip. I only noticed the bent liner when i decided to close it up again several days latter when I was getting tired of having a unsheathed knife flopping around. You know its entirely possible that I bent it some other way, like maybe I leaned against a rock or something. What I do know is the g10 liner is in tact and not messed up which always made me think it got that way from the batoning or prying. I got no reason to bash the 561, in fact I should be supporting it because I've been trying to trade a new one i got (any takers lol. But I've given it such high praise right?) but it just failed me and that's a fact. Ether way the liner bent and it lost allot of effectiveness after that. I'd upload pics but I traded it after repairing it for a water filtration system and then much to my chagrin got another one was a gift not soon after. I got this compound bow however that's real durable, no $&@# one time I used to shoot this dude that was standing really still for a long time near a waterfall and he exploded! Anyways, but yeah I'm surprised it failed, I got spyderco Endura's with a saber ground that I've done all kinds of crazy stuff to and they've never failed me.

Yeah just compared an emerson to my zt, looks like the Emerson's liner is roughly 30% a 40% larger than the zts steel liner. I'd recommend the roadhouse, for me it combines everything I love about the cqc-7 and cqc-8 into one knife. I really like how the blade sits low incomparison to where your hand grips, it helps allot with slicing, and the grip allows you to put most of your strength on your rear fingers, and so does the cqc-7, but the 8 makes you use all your fingers equally. I'd recommend an 8 if you want an overall great edc or are looking for an introduction to emerson, as someone once said "it's the best practical, tactical knife ever made". If you want a blade you could chisel apart a brick, opt for the 7, its great for allot of tasks just not everything, and its small. The 7 is made all the more cooler now because one sold for 30k because it was carried by one of the guys who killed Osama. The more obtuse blade angle of the edge helps the emerson in more rugged tasks, the blade steel is softer which helps with field sharpening and minimizing chipping, the frame is so sturdy I've seen a 7 get run over with a ASV and still be perfectly fine. The blade tapers down thicker to its point and blade edge on every emerson More so then the ZT.

The 561 isn't a terrible knife I'm not saying that, it's just pseudo rugged is all I'm saying. Or atleast it's not heavy rugged as it would have you believe.
 
Last edited:
Whenever someone talks about carrying a heavy duty folder in an office environment I think about that episode of the office where Dwight pushes up a ceiling tile, half unsheaths some kind of Chinese sword, and nods to the camera. No offense, I'd do the same thing, hell I do, do the same thing I work in a dorky lab. Anyone else think the same thing?
 
From the point of view of performance, I think there's nothing like a good fixed blade. Folders are the next best thing, are legal to carry in more places (are more socially accepted as well) and in most cases are more conveniant to have on your person at all times, but are just inferior tools.

Overbuilt, complex folders are really the wrong answer to the strength question. If you need something tougher than a regular pocketknife, a fixed blade knife is the way to go (a simpler, sometimes cheaper, tool that actually performs better).

However, they are cool as hell. I've got a Talwar XL in my pocket right now, just because I like it, and yesterday I carried a ZT 0200 for the exact same reason.
 
Just an fyi. A buddy wanted to see how much abuse a Spyderco Delica could stand before it broke. That lockbak folder with FRN handles took more abuse than he ever thought possible before he broke it.
My back up folder is a $20. KA-Bar Dozier Lightweight. You all need one. See reason above.
rolf
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top