The Fine Points of Dukes and Hunters

beliluk said:
I second this!

There is only one situation where I need "prying" and that is if I look for larvae of wood-boring beetles.
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Yep, primarily this for fishing bait, and emergency protein if needs be :), plus emergency fire starting materials. And I do a lot of extreme tests in this with knives marketed to soldiers for combat and survival. My thinking is that a knife specifically marketed to target soldiers in a combat environment should be tough enough to handle some extreme uses, because you just never know what might happen in war, or how much stress the individual may be under at the time. When the fight or flight response is triggered, and adrenaline kicks in, people aren't usually in control of their own strength. This particular target market has a higher chance of dealing with these circumstances than any other, so I think knives marketed to this group as combat/survival knives should undergo some extreme testing. Now, as a woodsman, not dealing with explosions going off around me, bullets flying at me...or parts of my friends flying by me, climbing out of a crashed aircraft, etc. I can deal with such digging operations at my own leisure. There are techniques for getting into logs that don't put as much lateral force on the blades, you just sort of take your time and remove smaller amounts of material, or whittle a digging stick. Besides, any dead log solid enough to damage a knife is not likely to have larvae in the harder sections anyway. The larvae busy themselves with the softer rotten material.
 
Fiddleback said:
This is an easy issue to fix. If that tip on your Duke bothers you, send it in and I can thicken it up. 2 minute fix with no chance of ruining the knife.

Dcycleman nailed it. These knives are handmande. I don't apply a micrometer to the knife after each pass. The grinds vary in thickness just as the handle does.

The big concerning issue for me is that folks are discussing prying with their Fiddlebacks. This should not be done with any knife. Prying tools are heat treated differently than knives and their geometry is completely different. The reason for this is physics, a thin hard sliver of steel does not have lateral strength. Do you want me to soften the knife until it is at spring steel hardness and won't hold an edge? Prying voids the warranty and it is hard to have much sympathy for a man with a broken knife that was used to pry. My grandad slapped me on the back of the neck when as a kid I was prying with my Kabar. "Don't pry with your knife. They make cheap ugly tools for that."
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I'd like to clarify a point here and say that when paying $300+ for a high quality knife, the last thing on my mind is to pry something with a fine tip. I'm well aware of the "Stupidity" clause outlined in the warranty and fortunately I don't fall in that category. ;) Thank you offering to grind the tip but that won't be necessary. My intentions were to get feedback on how others are using those fine tips on larger knives to educate myself on other potential uses for my Duke.

mistwalker said:
Yep, primarily this for fishing bait, and emergency protein if needs be :), plus emergency fire starting materials. And I do a lot of extreme tests in this with knives marketed to soldiers for combat and survival. My thinking is that a knife specifically marketed to target soldiers in a combat environment should be tough enough to handle some extreme uses, because you just never know what might happen in war, or how much stress the individual may be under at the time. When the fight or flight response is triggered, and adrenaline kicks in, people aren't usually in control of their own strength. This particular target market has a higher chance of dealing with these circumstances than any other, so I think knives marketed to this group as combat/survival knives should undergo some extreme testing. Now, as a woodsman, not dealing with explosions going off around me, bullets flying at me...or parts of my friends flying by me, climbing out of a crashed aircraft, etc. I can deal with such digging operations at my own leisure. There are techniques for getting into logs that don't put as much lateral force on the blades, you just sort of take your time and remove smaller amounts of material, or whittle a digging stick. Besides, any dead log solid enough to damage a knife is not likely to have larvae in the harder sections anyway. The larvae busy themselves with the softer rotten material.
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Mist - Thanks again for your input. I do agree with you that there are better tools for "combat and survival" situations and the Duke is not in that category. The goal here was to get input from users on how that fine tip is being used and what their experience has been. When choosing Fiddlebacks I do it for the quality craftsmanship. :thumbup: I have two sharpened crowbars Esee5 and BK2 and they honestly never get used.

You seem to have a lot of experience out on the field and I would love to hear how you use those fine edges. No need to cover the combat scenarios any further. :)

Thanks guys!

-1
 
For an all-round outdoors / woodsbumming knife, I like a tip that will allow me to drill into wood with confidence, but prying is certainly not a requirement. I have maybe one (of several) Busse knives I own which has a tip thick enough for light prying (and which in consequence is not much good at normal tip tasks), but I would never plan to use a knife for prying.
 
oneminus2 said:
Mist - Thanks again for your input. I do agree with you that there are better tools for "combat and survival" situations and the Duke is not in that category. The goal here was to get input from users on how that fine tip is being used and what their experience has been. When choosing Fiddlebacks I do it for the quality craftsmanship. :thumbup: I have two sharpened crowbars Esee5 and BK2 and they honestly never get used.

You seem to have a lot of experience out on the field and I would love to hear how you use those fine edges. No need to cover the combat scenarios any further. :)

Thanks guys!

-1
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I'll put together a series of photos that go into this subject next week, I have a hectic weekend planned. But tip strength and alternate techniques is a subject that comes up in bushcrafting and wilderness survival discussions quite often. In many cases it is easier to find ways to make a lighter knife perfrom heavier tasks that it is to make a heavier knife perform in more delicate tasks, with time constraints being the only issue really. Wilderness survival is about conserving strength and energy anyway, so it sometimes helps to have a student learn with a lighter knife from the beginning. I like pointy primarily for water's sake. We are much more dependent on water than food.
 
Fiddleback said:
The big concerning issue for me is that folks are discussing prying with their Fiddlebacks. This should not be done with any knife. Prying tools are heat treated differently than knives and their geometry is completely different. The reason for this is physics, a thin hard sliver of steel does not have lateral strength. Do you want me to soften the knife until it is at spring steel hardness and won't hold an edge? Prying voids the warranty and it is hard to have much sympathy for a man with a broken knife that was used to pry. My grandad slapped me on the back of the neck when as a kid I was prying with my Kabar. "Don't pry with your knife. They make cheap ugly tools for that."
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Fiddleback prybar for 2014 BLADE? lol
 
RobKevlar said:
Fiddleback prybar for 2014 BLADE? lol
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As much as I would dig having a sharpened pry bar with an Andy Roy handle, I don't know about this. Andy does gorgeous and slice-y very well, perhaps the comfy-handled-sharpened-pry-bar area should be left to Dylan :D
 
I would imagine it involves moving the cutting edge further back on the spin..shortening the knife slightly....but wth do i know
im sure andy will chime in
 
Joe Duder said:
Wouldn't that render it a Hunter?
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Funny you ask that Duder. The same crossed my mind when Andy offered to grind the tip. My guess it that the Duke will lose about 3/16" in length. I would still be a Duke...a short Duke or a tall hunter. LOL! ;) I'm leaving that tip as is.
 
So remember Fiddlebacks- No showing an excessive interest in a persons private affairs; don't be too inquisitive, while carrying your Fiddleback. That voids your warranty. Snarked ya :D
 
oneminus2 said:
I'd like to clarify a point here and say that when paying $300+ for a high quality knife, the last thing on my mind is to pry something with a fine tip. I'm well aware of the "Stupidity" clause outlined in the warranty and fortunately I don't fall in that category. ;) Thank you offering to grind the tip but that won't be necessary. My intentions were to get feedback on how others are using those fine tips on larger knives to educate myself on other potential uses for my Duke.
-1
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That wasn't necessarily directed at you -1, but I have to find ways to discourage prying. Every once in a while I've gotta post it just so it gets seen. I've posted that story about my grandad several times over the years.

Joe Duder said:
Curious. How do you thicken up steel?
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I would just re-sharpen it and focus on the tip with a 220 grit belt on my sharpening jig then go to the 600 grit finishing belt. All hand work. It doesn't take much. Certainly nowhere near 3/16" ( 0.187"). More like 0.010" shorter. You wouldn't notice it at all. The Duke is an inch longer than a Hunter, so no chance of turning it into a Hunter.

Seriously, if you want the tip thicker, I can do that easily at no charge. No biggie.
 
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