The Gold Boy handle......

[quinton]

quinton, You must not have heard- ALL TV IS MAKE BELIEVE. Did you see the PBS series Frontier House? Did you come away with the idea that the families cut the trees and built their log cabins? My crew of log carpenters and I designed, cut the logs and built the 3 cabins. Only Nate Brooks actually did any of the axe work on his little cabin. Nate turned out to be a very good axeman by the way.
The only TV carpenter I know who actually is a "Master" carpenter is Norm Abram. Norm worked with me on 2 wilderness log cabins, one in Wyoming, one in Montana. Norm is not an axeman, he is mister power tool. But, like any "Master" carpenter he very quickly adapted to the work at hand. The rest of them on TV are TV hosts in my opinion, and I have worked for PBS, History and Discovery channels. The funny part is I have not had a TV for 20 yrs.

I know that television shows are made to be profitable.
I did not see Frontier House, a brilliant friend of mine watched it for kicks, and kept me updated with belly laughs! Another friend updates me with the Bear Grylls saga. Hey, I was raised up a holler in Kentucky, killin' hogs, smokin' meat, and living off the land--I could starve that poor Grylls feller to death here in these woods.. I'm like you, that's the reason I don't watch much TV anymore(fake crap turns my stomach):barf:

I too consider Norm Abram a master. He reminds me of my father, also a master carpenter. My father bought a handsaw, hammer, and an iron square in the late 50's to build a corncrib. His first carpentry project(the crib) was so perfect neighbors took notice and hired him for other projects. This led to a lifetime career as a carpenter. My father has worked in this smaller community his entire life, never having to leave for work, or even advertising. Word of mouth gave him a lifelong career of building the finest homes in this county!
Hey, Bernie I'll still make you a proper sideways grain haft if you want..

 

[quinton]

Thank you for this tidbit! There are increasingly many more next generation 'Google experts' out there (than there still are old folks that physically use such implements) that 'wax eloquent' precisely about how to use them. I know nothing about Mr Underhill nor his vintage TV shows but if you tell me he cut himself on air more than once then someone out there obviously was on hand to make sure to keep him well away from 'talking shop' about loaded guns.

Bernie ain't blind. He must not want to talk to you..

 

[300Six]

Bernie ain't blind. He must not want to talk to you..

Huh? Didn't catch that one. But I too stopped watching TV in the late 1980s, (25+ years ago), not so much because of the content but because irritating advertising increasingly seemed to be taking up more time than actual programs.

 

[Twindog]

Huh? Didn't catch that one. But I too stopped watching TV in the late 1980s, (25+ years ago), not so much because of the content but because irritating advertising increasingly seemed to be taking up more time than actual programs.

In that last 25 years, we've gotten video recorders. You can watch just the show and skip the ads. You can even record, then enter the program when it's a third over and miss all the ads.

Lots of good and bad stuff on TV.

 

[300Six]

In that last 25 years, we've gotten video recorders. You can watch just the show and skip the ads. You can even record, then enter the program when it's a third over and miss all the ads.

Lots of good and bad stuff on TV.

You're probably right but now that I've thoroughly weaned myself off the boob tube for 1/4 century I don't miss it at all. Websites and internet forums, though, I may soon have to consider bailing out of if anything is to actually get done around here.

 

[Old Axeman]

Like 300six & quinton I dont have TV because It's mostly crap and I enjoy working not watching.
quinton- thanks for the offer but I will pass on the sideways grain haft. What if someone saw me with that helve on my TT jersey ?

 

[rjdankert]

By width, he is meaning length..

Yes, I sometimes say left when I mean right. Don't know how I ever made it through basic training.

 

[rjdankert]

I'm a big fan of Roy Underhill.

I would describe Mr. Underhill using only one word, "Master".. He is one of the VERY FEW that can go to the woods with hand tools and return with a china hutch, and matching dinette complete with captain's chairs. . . .

I don't know about "Master" but I have a lot of respect for him. Been watching him on PBS for years, I've watched as many of his videos online as I could find - some of them multiple times. I am interested in the older ways of doing things with wood (joinery, riving, carving, etc, etc.) and I don't know of another tv show that does what he does. Bonus, it's commercial free. So what if he has a little cut during filming? Being an amature I can easily relate to that. Besides, who has never lost a little blood working with their hands? Also, I have read that he does all of his shows in one take and no editing. He is keeping alive a hand woodworking tradition through his shows, books, and his classes.

I realize that a lot of woodworking folks aren't interested in what Roy has to offer. That's where Norm comes in. He has access to all types of power tools, A lot of his projects use sheet goods, glue, clamps, pneumatic brad nailers, etc. I would be surprised to see him with a screwdriver or hammer in his show. I don't point this out because I don't like Norm's show, only to point the difference between the two shows. Norm certainly knows what he's doing, it's just a different type of woodworking show. BTW I also own power woodworking tools.

 

[quinton]

I'm a big fan of Roy Underhill.



I don't know about "Master" but I have a lot of respect for him. Been watching him on PBS for years, I've watched as many of his videos online as I could find - some of them multiple times. I am interested in the older ways of doing things with wood (joinery, riving, carving, etc, etc.) and I don't know of another tv show that does what he does. Bonus, it's commercial free. So what if he has a little cut during filming? Being an amature I can easily relate to that. Besides, who has never lost a little blood working with their hands? Also, I have read that he does all of his shows in one take and no editing. He is keeping alive a hand woodworking tradition through his shows, books, and his classes.

I realize that a lot of woodworking folks aren't interested in what Roy has to offer. That's where Norm comes in. He has access to all types of power tools, A lot of his projects use sheet goods, glue, clamps, pneumatic brad nailers, etc. I would be surprised to see him with a screwdriver or hammer in his show. I don't point this out because I don't like Norm's show, only to point the difference between the two shows. Norm certainly knows what he's doing, it's just a different type of woodworking show. BTW I also own power woodworking tools.

My friend and his wife never miss the show. They would make a wager on when Roy would start bleeding, within the first 5 minutes of the show, 10 minutes, or near the end!

 

[quinton]

Like 300six & quinton I dont have TV because It's mostly crap and I enjoy working not watching.
quinton- thanks for the offer but I will pass on the sideways grain haft. What if someone saw me with that helve on my TT jersey ?

After all your preachin' about vertical grain, your just scared that you would like it..and they would too.

 

[G-pig]

The broken hammer handles I've picked up on the job site over the decades usually have grain perpendicular to the hammer head.

There is a possibility that this is confounded by the fact that people who select straight grain are more likely (at least somewhat) to treat their tools a little bit better than those to whom things like grain, or selection when it comes to tools, are lost upon. Just a partial explanation.

 

[G-pig]

double post

 

[jblyttle]

Often wrong, but never in doubt.

Most of you here have more experience and skill than I do so I will prefer to take it all in rather than debate, but I will say that I love this saying! I'm going to remember that one, it can be applied somewhere almost daily.

 

[Square_peg]

Mr. Underhill is saying horizontal grain is better than vertical. He is also right about the heartwood not being as good as the tougher sapwood.

I was also always told to use only sapwood hickory for axe handles, as the heartwood is not fit for the purpose......

That myth about heartwood has been dispelled.

Also see the following:

Red hickory as strong as white hickory

http://cedarriverforge.com/Photo-index/axephotos/Red Hickory as Strong as White Hickory.pdf


Lastly,

 

[Square_peg]

One other thing, heartwoods are in general more decay resistant than sapwoods. But it should be noted that hickory is poor in this regard overall. Black locust is best in this regard.

http://cedarriverforge.com/Photo-in...e of Heartwood of Native Trees - fplrn153.pdf

 

[Square_peg]

And for the record, I love Roy Underhill and 'The Woodwright's Shop' TV show. He most certainly is a master. Bleeding doesn't make him any less so. Bleeding is part of using well sharpened hand tools. It's a badge of honor.


Been there, done that.

 

[BG_Farmer]

And for the record, I love Roy Underhill and 'The Woodwright's Shop' TV show. He most certainly is a master. Bleeding doesn't make him any less so. Bleeding is part of using well sharpened hand tools. It's a badge of honor.


Been there, done that.

Agree with all that, Underhill and all. Well sharpened tools hurt less, too!

 

[gben]

Square, those pages you have don't mean anything because they are testing green wood. The thing about Underhill is that he just does not say things without explaining them. He has been working with wood for 40+ years besides having a master's degree in forestry etc.. More credentials and experience than anyone here. Heartwood is more prone to checking when it seasons, that is why you don't want it, it's strength compared to sapwood has nothing to do with it.

You can make an axe with the grain going any way you want to and it will do the hobbyists here as well as anything. When you find an axe handle that is warped off to one side or the other, it will be one that has it's grain running from bit to poll though. If the grain is running at right-angles to the length of the axe-head, then if it warps it will simply bend forwards or backwards a bit and will not make the axe useless.

Underhill has written a lot of books and he is a great writer and he has a lot of passion for what he is doing. I have read a few of his books and they were all great. I have never watched his TV show as I do not have cable or an antenna the last few decades. Someone I knew had one of his books and let me read it decades ago and I liked it so much and the information in it was so interesting and helpful I bought more of them.

 

[BG_Farmer]

Square, those pages you have don't mean anything because they are testing green wood. The thing about Underhill is that he just does not say things without explaining them. He has been working with wood for 40+ years besides having a master's degree in forestry etc.. More credentials and experience than anyone here. Heartwood is more prone to checking when it seasons, that is why you don't want it, it's strength compared to sapwood has nothing to do with it.

You can make an axe with the grain going any way you want to and it will do the hobbyists here as well as anything. When you find an axe handle that is warped off to one side or the other, it will be one that has it's grain running from bit to poll though. If the grain is running at right-angles to the length of the axe-head, then if it warps it will simply bend forwards or backwards a bit and will not make the axe useless.

Underhill has written a lot of books and he is a great writer and he has a lot of passion for what he is doing. I have read a few of his books and they were all great. I have never watched his TV show as I do not have cable or an antenna the last few decades. Someone I knew had one of his books and let me read it decades ago and I liked it so much and the information in it was so interesting and helpful I bought more of them.

I agree with you also. My observation in several fields is that really knowledgeable people give explanations and welcome questions. They do not typically deride people who differ in opinion, nor do they quote their own opinion as holy writ unless they have substantial data to back it up. My impression of Roy Underhill is that he does understand wood and regularly makes things from it and could defend his positions or modify them if convinced. My impression of other experts is...not positive. I am torn on the specific question of heart vs sapwood. At this point, I'm happy if the whole handle is one or the other, assuming well seasoned , but still not sure. I do miss the heavy, white, straight-grained handles we had when I was a kid!

 

[quinton]

I fully agree with, Bernie in "An Axe to Grind" on heartwood. When working a stave, there will generally be some heartwood on it, it does not work like the sapwood, it is softer, and "brashy".
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Basics of Handle Selection

Hickory makes the best handles for percussion tools like axes. You seldom see any species other than hickory offered by ax-handle companies.

There are several important characteristics you need to look for in a good ax handle. Generally, you get what you pay for, because the higher grade hickory handles sell at a premium over lower grade handles. Your new handle should be of straight grain, second growth, clear hickory. Cheap, inferior handles tend to break, split, and warp. If you are going through all the work of hanging your own ax, you should spend the extra dollars to get a high-quality handle. Some characteristics you need to look at include:

Color:

The best handles are from second growth hickory sapwood, all white in color

(Figure 35). In lower grades, various amounts of red-colored heartwood are in the handle.