The Grand Unified Traditional Pull Scale

You are very welcome Andi. She was laughing the entire time trying to figure out what I was up to.
 
Great picture Kevin!

There are so many things an older generation can do better than us.
 
I like the described gradients in the scale, though I think the 'baseline' would likely be different for each individual. In particular, the threshold at which one might break a nail will vary widely. Some people have very fragile nails, so it doesn't take near as much resistance to be a problem.

Another variable is whether one finds it 'easy' to open a blade by pinching it, as opposed to using a thumbnail only. I'm very impressed (:thumbup:) by Kevin's pic and story of his grandmother finding it easy to open his knife, but I immediately wondered, 'Did she pinch it open, or use only her thumbnail?' I know my own mother's nails are quite fragile, and she breaks them frequently (she's coming up on 79 years young). And both of my parents have ever-increasing difficulties with arthritic hands, so what used to be simple for them isn't quite so, anymore. My Dad & I share a little bit of wine each afternoon, and he usually hands me the opener, when a new bottle needs un-corked. He used to not do that; it was something he took some pride in doing himself, when it didn't pain him to do so (he's approaching 82).
 
Doug, I believe that to be true. I feel they appreciate everything more, complain less and are generally a much tougher generation. Yes, I am saying I think my 5' 2" grandma is tougher than me :eek:

Confucius, she sure did :)
 
David,

Just caught your comments. Yes she did it with the Easy open the first time then I asked her to do it by the long pull. Both ways she laughed and asked why I am asking her to open it. I told her and she said, "I expected it to be hard to open, why else would you have asked me to try"...

She is always laughing, recovering from a broken hip, has Osteoporosis and arthritis, but she is one tough old lady. :thumbup:
 
richstag said:
I feel they appreciate everything more, complain less and are generally a much tougher generation. Yes, I am saying I think my 5' 2" grandma is tougher than me :eek:
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Yep. My dad's mom was 93 in June, and she constantly amazes me. The things she has lived through and taken in stride would completely undo most people of my generation (I'm 50), and certainly the ones following mine.
 
supratentorial said:
I usually start by defining 5 as the "pull" on a modern Victorinox alox Soldier
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That's exactly how I think of it. Give a common knife with consistent QC a set number and go from there. If my Pioneer/Soldier is a 5, then my GEC Bull Nose is a 6, and my S&M half whittler is a 4, etc...
 
I agree with many of the nicely put insights in this thread.

I agree that strength of pull is subjective.

I like Jake and Aaron's idea of using a widely available standard production knife as a baseline. The pull on the Main Blade of my Vic Alox Pioneer is a #5 for me today.

Variations in nail strength and arthritis occur for me in any year, so it is even subjective at different times of the year for me.

As others have pointed out, the ability to pinch the EZ Open is a variable. Placement of the nail nick in relation to the frame is also a great variable.

I can pinch the 2011 BF Forum knife Blade Open. I need a strong knife pick to open the cap lifter on the same knife.

Mike H.

I am looking for a 2009 BF Forum knife, and an AG Russell Texas Ranger Rope Knife. Please PM
 
Why not come up with a design for a pull-tester, that leaves out the subjectivity completely?
 
aarya said:
Why not come up with a design for a pull-tester, that leaves out the subjectivity completely?
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That shouldn't be too difficult, actually. Get a very small C clamp, pad the jaws with rubber, and hook a fish scale to it. Voila. If you feel fancy you could get a small tension meter. The tricky part would be when you have a knife that doesn't have enough area above the frame to clamp onto, and that problem I will leave to someone else's ingenuity.

As long as you always clamped to the same spot relative to each knife, you should get a valid result.
 
If you used a small, thin strip of brass or other metal lined with rubber or felt to protect the edge, around the blade, then close it, you could hook the measuring device onto that strip.
(The brass or other metal being soft enough not to scratch the liners or other blades, but strong enough not to break. Also, the point of measurement should always be where the nail nick is, or where one normally pinches or grabs to open the blade.)
 
Planterz said:
That's exactly how I think of it. Give a common knife with consistent QC a set number and go from there. If my Pioneer/Soldier is a 5, then my GEC Bull Nose is a 6, and my S&M half whittler is a 4, etc...
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I like this idea a lot, I think Victorinox would be one of, if not the only company that has consistent enough QC to do this.

aarya said:
Why not come up with a design for a pull-tester, that leaves out the subjectivity completely?
Click to expand...

The problem I forsee with something like this is that the angle and way in which people pull will be different. If you imagine for a second using a pull tester that has been described, depending on the angle that you pull, you could get varying results. Granted it is definitelly more objective than the scale proposed, there is still some room for error there.

The other issue is that not everyone may have a tester available and the pull strength can vary greatly from knife to knife.
 
confucius37 said:
Another member sent me a message remarking that he liked the pull scale I put on my sale thread. I thought I'd put it out there for everyone to see here and get some opinions/suggestions.

The values on the scale are just what made sense to me, so everyone's scale could be different, but maybe we can come up with something that most people can agree on? The one thing I did try to do was make sure 10 and 1 included the most extreme cases as most everyone can relate to a knife being impossible to open without tools and one that simply does not stay closed at all.

The Scale:

10 - unable to open by hand
9 - able to open but breaking a nail likely
8 - able to open but very stiff, tough for edc use
7 - firm pull, edc range
6 - ideal edc range
5 - nice for secondary blades, tad light for a main blade
4 - starting to get too light for use
3 - maybe acceptable on very old knives
2 - barely closes
1 - does not stay closed
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Confucius,
I really like your idea. I do not want to pouch on your idea but, I think that you can improve it. If yoiu will send me yoiur name and email address I will see if Phil Gibbs (The World's Greatest Slipjoint Engineer) and I can help you make it a bit more clear and easier for all of us to relate to. The folks here can tell yoiiu ab out how my new slipjoints from China (engineered by Phil Gibbs) are working. Here is what Phio said when I asked him about this thread.

A. G.

A.G.

That gauge in my office measures the actual force a slipjoint spring exerts on a tang.

Somewhere I think I still have an adapter I made to measure the force required to pull the blade from the knife measured at the nailmark. I'll start digging!

I believe they are correct in that we all have a variable perception of what we are comfortable with.

I also believe it is possible by design & consistancy of manufacture to produce knives that almost everyone is comfortable opening, yet still snap closed with confidence.

Phil
 
A. G. Russell said:
Confucius,
I really like your idea. I do not want to pouch on your idea but, I think that you can improve it. If yoiu will send me yoiur name and email address I will see if Phil Gibbs (The World's Greatest Slipjoint Engineer) and I can help you make it a bit more clear and easier for all of us to relate to. The folks here can tell yoiiu ab out how my new slipjoints from China (engineered by Phil Gibbs) are working. Here is what Phio said when I asked him about this thread.

A. G.

A.G.

That gauge in my office measures the actual force a slipjoint spring exerts on a tang.

Somewhere I think I still have an adapter I made to measure the force required to pull the blade from the knife measured at the nailmark. I'll start digging!

I believe they are correct in that we all have a variable perception of what we are comfortable with.

I also believe it is possible by design & consistancy of manufacture to produce knives that almost everyone is comfortable opening, yet still snap closed with confidence.

Phil
Click to expand...

Here you go.
 
This whole thread is a perfect example of why I spend more time here in the tradition sub-forum than any other forum I visit. I can't wait to see how this turns out.
 
A. G. Russell said:
Confucius,
I really like your idea. I do not want to pouch on your idea but, I think that you can improve it. If yoiu will send me yoiur name and email address I will see if Phil Gibbs (The World's Greatest Slipjoint Engineer) and I can help you make it a bit more clear and easier for all of us to relate to. The folks here can tell yoiiu ab out how my new slipjoints from China (engineered by Phil Gibbs) are working. Here is what Phio said when I asked him about this thread.

A. G.

A.G.

That gauge in my office measures the actual force a slipjoint spring exerts on a tang.

Somewhere I think I still have an adapter I made to measure the force required to pull the blade from the knife measured at the nailmark. I'll start digging!

I believe they are correct in that we all have a variable perception of what we are comfortable with.

I also believe it is possible by design & consistancy of manufacture to produce knives that almost everyone is comfortable opening, yet still snap closed with confidence.

Phil
Click to expand...

Wow, that is very cool, I would love to get your and Phil's input on it. From the very start I thought that scale was just a rough draft of sorts and welcomed any and all input. I will send a PM with my information.

Thank You!
 
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