The Great MKII Kami Challenge!

jdk1

jdk1

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,040
We have seen some fine M-43 khuks come from HI. I have a wonderful Tirtha M-43 myself. But, they do differ from the original pattern. Tirtha seems to have recently gotten the blade design down pretty well and the weight is reasonably low. If we really wanted to nail the original specs, what would they be? 17" to 18" and 25 or so ounces? That would not be easy. My 19" is a hair under 32 ounces and is under 3/8". One issue is the HI M-43s seem to widen at the shoulder and taper at the tip. If I understand correctly, the original began at the bolster at around 3/8" and quickly tapered. Also, to my eye Tirtha starts his shoulder a little late, close to half way, while the originals seemed to begin around 1/3 of the blade length from the bolster. This gave the originals that long leaf or Bhojpure look. The handle on the originals seemed to have more curve and taper also.

If someone was to send a photo, along with detailed measurements and specs to Auntie, could the Kamis reproduce the original? It might be worth a try. Some of the Sher pieces look to follow the original pretty closely, so it should be possible.

Bill, do you have a good profile and spine shot of your Mk II? Also, if we could get spine, handle and belly measurements at various points, we could get a good idea where todays differ. I know in the past, custom jobs didn't always come out right due to language issues, etc., but we also see the Farm Knife turned out perfect. Maybe it's worth a shot. Thanks and take care.
 
I've considered buying one of the originals but I'd rather spend with HI. If they get the stats right I'm certainly in.
 
There is apretty serious language barrier - we make have to make a wooden prototype. I guess Ms. Yangdu would kno best though.
 
Weight wise, the heavier weights of the M-43's are part of the recent gain that has been seen in all of the models. Plenty of the older HI M-43's I've seen are in the mid-low 20's.
 
I've said before that I was told that there are only a small handfull of kamis left in Nepal that "could" still make an authentic (correct) MKII. So maybe we should phrase it in the form of a Great MKII Kami Challenge!

As of today, 4/10/2011, with much effort and searching on my part, I have not seen a new correct (authentic) MKII offered for sale anywhere for any price. By authentic I mean; correct dimensions, correct shape, correct handle and correct weight.

***Note: In many kukri models there is really no such thing as "correct" because they are regional models designed for different individuals and tasks. However, the military models are different, they have specs! There is a correct and incorrect.

But in an effort to be practical, we will increase the size of the standard handle to the size of a typical Jungle kukri. This will make it close to authentic but still usable for most and that should not change the balance to badly. That still might be a bit small of a handle for some of our western giants, but they can always go buy a CAK!

Before we open up the "Great Kami Challenge" lets have everyone with an authentic old issue MKII post their dimensions and weight so we can come up with a template. Please include the following:

Total Length: (inches if possible)
Blade length: (tip to bolster)
Belly debth: (widest width on the belly)
Spine thickness at the Bolster:
Spine thickness at the bend of the shoulder:
Spine thickness just before the tip:
Handle length:
Handle circumference:
Weight: (in grams if possible)

Please include a picture because we will need to decide which of the handle types we want to choose for the model. I guess you can include the scabbard as well since one will have to be made.

Also, please indicate if you would be willing to purchase such a kukri because after all, HI is a business and we cannot just play on their dime. I'm in for one! My guess is, if they can make them correctly, they won't be able to make them fast enough.
 
Opps, sorry John, I just started a thread about this too called the Great MKII Kami Challenge. Didn't mean to step on this one. But you know my juices are flowing now!
 
shortwinger said:
Opps, sorry John, I just started a thread about this too called the Great MKII Kami Challenge. Didn't mean to step on this one. But you know my juices are flowing now!
Click to expand...
To avoid confusion, would you guys want me to merge the threads? Just let me know and which way you want them merged. jdk1's to shortwingers, or the other way 'round.
 
Of course I'm in for one! You have more info in your thread so we'll just consolidate my thread into yours. I look forward to this project. Unfortunately, I have no Mk II, so no stats to add. I will add that I'm all for a villager finish and wood. I also think steel furniture would be an authentic touch. Take care.
 
Last edited:
Karda said:
To avoid confusion, would you guys want me to merge the threads? Just let me know and which way you want them merged. jdk1's to shortwingers, or the other way 'round.
Click to expand...

Karda, Bill's is more informative and better suited to the purpose. Please consolidate into his. Thanks!
 
I am absolutely in for one if they can reproduce the weight and balance of the original MkII's.

I too have been looking for an accurate modern version of a MkII. I even had a custom M43 made at 18 inches and 26 Oz. in an attempt to mimic the khukries of old. Tithra made my M43. While it is light it has almost no taper in the spine. I hope the kamis can pull this off. If they do, I might buy 2.
 
I'd love to get an authentic repro of the MKII. However, one issue that comes to mind for me is the warranty. I don't know if an 18" 25 oz khuk is going to fall under a field use category. Just a thought.
 
7rip13a said:
I'd love to get an authentic repro of the MKII. However, one issue that comes to mind for me is the warranty. I don't know if an 18" 25 oz khuk is going to fall under a field use category. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Leo,

I have a 1941, 1943 and 1944 that were used hard in military use and still could be. That is how they were made and they lasted. I would not care a bit about any warranty other than against defects in material or workmanship.
 
DSC03070.JPG
Top to bottom
1941 IMA - 792 grams - 3/16” bevel
17.5 inches overall - 13 inch blade - 4.75 inch handle
2.25 “ belly width - ¼” at bolster - ¼” at shoulder - 2/16” at tip

1943 Pioneer - 672 grams - 3/16” bevel
17.5 inches overall - 13 ¼ inch blade - 4.5 inch handle
2 5/16“ belly width - ¼” at bolster - ¼” at shoulder - 1/16” at tip

1944 Qeyoom Bros - 700 grams - 3/16” bevel
17.5 inches overall - 13-1/4 inch blade - 4-3/4 inch handle
2.25 “ belly width - 3/8” at bolster - ¼” at shoulder - 2/16” at tip

HI M43 - 822 grams - ½ + inch bevel
17.5 inches overall - 12 inch blade - 6 inch handle
2.25 “ belly width - 5/16” at bolster - 3/8” at shoulder - 3/16” at tip

DSC03059.JPG

Pilot/Aircrew MKII (unknown date) - 481 grams - 3/16” bevel (bottom kukri)
15 inches overall - 11 inch blade - 4 inch handle
2.25 “ belly width - 1/4" at bolster - ¼” at shoulder - 2/16” at tip

My favorite is the 1941, it was my first antique and I love the handle. It feels like a military piece of equipment. If you have ever been in the military and picked up a bayonette then you know what I mean. It has a solid feel about it. But the 1944 is the best balanced, best feeling handle and overall best feel.

You can see how the HI model took from the blade and added to the handle. That drastically changes the look, balance and feel.

The Pilot/Aircrew is not bad but the handle would have to be bigger. The overall balance is good but it is light and I would wonder about performance. Will it act like a kukri? It would be worth finding out. I would be willing to send it to Nepal with some assurances of care and getting it back.

DSC03061.JPG
The 1941 & 1944 handles are very similar overall but look different. They feel the best.
 
Last edited:
shortwinger said:
Leo,

I have a 1941, 1943 and 1944 that were used hard in military use and still could be. That is how they were made and they lasted. I would not care a bit about any warranty other than against defects in material or workmanship.
Click to expand...

+1, considering the fact that my Atlanta Cutlery Indo-Khuk (my name for it) was bought by me in early 1985, at age 14, and withstood my teenage stupidity and is still going strong.
Not an ad/testimonial for AC. I like a lot of their products, but let's be honest. HI is MUCH better.
The point being, if the AC khuk can hold up like it has, the HI Khuks should last forever. My HI Tamang, C-Bit, and Khadka Bonecutter are much nicer and better made. Barring any possible defects in materials/workmanship, there's not much need for a warranty on an HI knife. They're built tough.
I'd love to have an authentic repro of a MkII. I'd like to have the M43 in it's current iteration. Right now, I'm saving up to buy an AK Bowie, Munk Chunk Cleaver, HI Ultimate Cleaver, and a Tarwar.
 
JayGoliath said:
John and Bill,
Are we looking for a potential group buy?
Jay
Click to expand...

Jay,

That would be fine with me. Or if HI is actually iinterested, they could have each kami make one for the Challenge and have a contest. Once a winner was selected that would be the kami that would make them for later orders, or at least that version would be the official version. Then the others could go as DOD's. I doubt they would have trouble selling them!
 
shortwinger said:
Jay,

That would be fine with me. Or if HI is actually iinterested, they could have each kami make one for the Challenge and have a contest. Once a winner was selected that would be the kami that would make them for later orders, or at least that version would be the official version. Then the others could go as DOD's. I doubt they would have trouble selling them!
Click to expand...

Either way sounds good to me. I just want a good reproduction of the original. Thanks Bill and everyone else for their input. I guess we just need Auntie's input. I'm curious how she would feel about the photos and specs going to Bir Ghorka. Take care.
 
Hey gang. While reading through this a light began to burn dimly in my head about a post I'd seen in the Canitina regarding the history of the military issued khukuris. I did a search and found this: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/753300-update-to-20th-Century-British-Military-Pattern-Gurkha-Issue-Kukri

While spiraltwista's post doesn't list all of the measurements that you are looking for, perhaps he could be contacted and asked, if he still has access to some of these MKII/M43s, if he would mind collecting the data and passing it on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top