The grinder wars, do i really need to spend the money? As well as an EDGE question.

T

therron258

Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
183
Let me say that ive enjoyed reading everything here, and everyones help.

Ive been at this since mid february, and completed maybe 10 knives.

I currently use either a 4x36 belt sander, or a 1x42.

In the next month or so, im going to buy a grinder, maybe longer if i need to get a different one.

Will the 2x72 Grizzly with 10" contact wheel suffice? I want to be able to do full flat grinds, right now i do convex in the slack spot on the sander, and it seems to work decent, i just can never get a ricasso/plunge area to look the way i want. Do i really NEED to go ahead and get a KMG, or similar setup? Im going to buy a new one, either a grizzly at the minimum, or something else

If i get the grizzly, i can get a 3 burner propane forge sooner, i already have access to a kiln, but it doesnt have the digital controller, and id like the forge to possibly try damascus sometime, and because i also do railroad spike knives.

EDGE Question: All of my edges now end up with a zero grind, and ive heard theres nothing wrong with that, they are just harder for customers to sharpen when using a sharpener like a sharpmaker by spyderco. Is there a better way to do this with my current setup? Flat grinds are hard to do on the 4x36 because there is 1/4"-1/2" of spcae between the edge of the sander and the actual belt, it just doesnt work. What is a good way to get a good edge/what IS a good edge to put on a blade, is there a tool i could make out of wood or something that is at an angle, and i could push the blade along the sander?

All help is greatly appreciated, thanks guys.

Therron Shaw.
 
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I am using a 1x42 Delta with an adjustable work rest so I built this jig to help me grind more evenly.

tn_DSCF0508.jpg
 
If you think you're going to keep making knives indefinitely, then buy the KMG. And set it up right, too - 2 HP variable speed, 10" (at least) wheel, platen, small wheel. I really believe that using the best tools you can afford more than pays off in the long run, just like using better belts, etc. You will end up with the nice forge eventually too. ;)
 
On my 4x36 I epoxied a ceramic tile I purchased from home depot on the platen . I then used a carbide tile bit for my dremel to cut it to shape flush with the belt edges. I felt your pain with the belt clearance on the edges but that $1.00 tile fixed 98% of my problem. The rest I fixed with a die grinder on the sides of the platen so I could get more clearance when profiling finger grooves and such. If you like I can post pics later on this afternoon when I get home from work.

Oh yea, and since you like making knives so much buy a KMG with either a motor controller, or the three speed pulley setup when you get the money. That will make the experience that much more enjoyable. And get at least 2hp. Think about how many times you have bogged that 4x36 down and how that sucks.
 
If you are thinking long term; save your money and purchase the best you can afford.
When building up your machine inventory, for your shop, do it one piece at a time, instead of seeing how far you can stretch your money so as to purchase several lesser pieces.

Fred
 
My opinion is that you will be WAY ahead if you save your pennies and purchase a top of the line grinder. Many of us have been down the road of buying a grinder that we though we could afford....and quickly become disgusted with it, and buy another, and another, and finally we wind up purchasing a top of the line grinder like the KMG. By the time we've gotten there, we've usually spent enough money to buy two KMGS! LEARN FROM OUR ERRORS! With minimal care a top of the line grinder will last a lifetime, and nothing will improve your blades more. Its also going to be the most versatile and most used machine in your shop....I use my KMG everyday, even if I'm not working directly on knives.

I totally agree with Fred! Concentrate on one GOOD piece of equipment at a time. Again, most of us have been down the road of buying "what we can afford"....and wind up buying it a few times before we break down and buy "the good stuff." If you do it right the first time....you won't need to do it again.
 
The grinder is the heart of most knifemaker's shops. I spent far more money on my Wilton variable speed grinder and the 2 X 72 belts it uses than any other machine in the shop. This will be your best investment for your hobby/business.

A good machine makes the work much more pleasurable to perform. At the same time your work will come up much better and faster.
 
if you are worried abuot costs

save a bit and get a starter KMG
they are easy to upgrade and have many extra sets of tooling for just about anything you could want to do with a grinder

i got my VS KMG used for a steel of $900 +1k mile round trip drive like 3 years ago and it came with 2 motors
as bad as it sound with some makers having to close up shop might be good to look around to see if you can find used
 
what will a KMG run me the way i need it? Im still a student in college, so i have to keep that in mind, and may still shoot for a KMG by the end of the year but get a grizzly now.

You all have made some great points, looking forward to more replies.

I would love to see the ceramic tile put on the platen of the 4x36

I see that beaumont metal works is around 2100 for the 2hp variable speed, 8" wheel complete package.. am i right?
 
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i think you can get a base flat platten set up for like 1k

if you get the griz you can always keep it around for other grinding even after the KMG
i want to get a 2nd grinder now so i can leave it set up for honing
 
such as leave the griz for finer belts?


where can i get the setup with just the platen? thats all i really want, i can do convex and flat grinds with that, not ready for hollow grinding...
 
If you're in college, keep using what you have in your spare time, but focus on getting a return for your efforts in school. Ten knives in three months is a good pace and you'll probably have more time available to you in the summer.

Good luck, Craig
 
cdent said:
If you're in college, keep using what you have in your spare time, but focus on getting a return for your efforts in school. Ten knives in three months is a good pace and you'll probably have more time available to you in the summer.

Good luck, Craig
Click to expand...

actually, ,the bad thing is I have a job away from home over the summer, im doing well in school, 3.5gpa in an engineering program.

ill only be able to work on knives 3 days a week..id like to be able to put my money to something good
 
get this, http://www.usaknifemaker.com/store/...ath=59&zenid=86cc6a3aca21acb886108bd37b8bd8b3
If you cant build this you shouldn't be using tools. If your creative you can build it for under $300.00 If your really creative you can build is for even less.
My original flat platen set up, I built for less than 2 bills. I ran wooden idler wheels and wooden tracking wheel for a year until I made enough money to replace them. I now have this grinder set up with a 10" contact wheel, flat-platen, and a small-wheel tool arm, and 4 speed step pulleys. I have speeds from a low 700 SFPM to 5000 SFPM.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=619376
 
Here are the pics I said I would post...

here is the side view with the worktable...
sideplaten.jpg


Here is the front view without the belt...
frontplaten.jpg


And here is the closeup of the recess I cut in the steel to make clearance for tight radius grinding
recesscut.jpg
 
Let me just add a perspective or two.

I know of one current maker, who was just recently featured in Tactical Knives who has only a Grizzly, and has no plans of buying anything else.

I also know of another maker, of true infamy, known for beautiful work, and horrible business practices, who had only a Grizzly.

I made my first two knives in a shop with a Speed-Cut that constantly bogs down, and sometimes just decides to stop working....

So, it can be done with less than the best. But, are you willing to accept the possible downsides?

If you search the forums (go to google, and enter "site:bladeforums.com grizzly + grinder"), you will find that people make knives all the time with Grizzly grinders.

Myself, I will probably end up with a No Weld, or a KMG clone, because I have a friend who wants to build one, and will build mine for me, given that I help and pay for materials.

But, here is the other perspective.....

Until I get the clone or win the lottery......

I am going low-tech, learning how to do all this, with as little machinery and little to no electricty....

Hand tools.

So, that is my perspective for now.....

Marion
 
I've been low tech and just getting by, I worked my way up to a VS Burr King and I have no plans to ever turn back.

Marion you're right, there are also a few makers that use nothing but hand files and make some of the most sought after blades in the market. Those guys using Grizzly's have had to do a lot of mods to them and they've had to modify the way they work to accomodate the issues with that grinder.
 
It is interesting to watch a KMG run at 5000 SFM. A 10" wheel turning really fast, a long belt whizzing by at a blur making a high pitch "sssss"- but the arm and frame of the grinder are sitting there perfectly still. There is no buzz or vibration or motion of any kind. The belt doesn't wiggle back and forth. Nothing. It is almost like the grinder isn't even turned on.

That kind of rock solid stability is very helpful to my grinding.
 
How about a Coote grinder ? Depending on where you plan to go with your knifemaking. I don,t own one and have only seen them online.Soooooooooooo
I don,t know the good/not so good points of a Coote.

Opinions ?
 
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