The hardest edge retention

S

sodi

Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
3
Hello,

I am new here and I would like to ask you, which material has the highest edge retention quality. Is it the high carbon steel like 440A or Cera-Titanum blade.
 
Welcome to the forums!!

The best answer to give you is to use the archive function and research the answer. As you can imagine there is more information on this subject in the archives that any sane person would want to know. Put aside a couple of days to check it out:D

Good luck:) :)
 
What types of materials are you cutting, how is the cutting being performed and under what conditions.

-Cliff
 
Hi Cliff

Well I was thinking about a universal pocket knife to take into the nature. Maybee cutting wood etc.
 
Hi Sodi,
Welcome to the forums

It really seems like you have no idea what you want. Try to do some research. There is so much to know and you are stepping in the wrong direction. 440A is not a high carbon steel. It is higher than some but lower than most. Look here:

http://www.agrussell.com/knife_information/steel_guide/index.html

This site is one of many that will help you make a decision on steels. Cera-titanium is completely on the other end of the blade material spectrum. There is a whole universe of viable choices between the two. It will be difficult for BF members to help if you are unsure what you want in a knife.
 
SOLEIL said:
440A is not a high carbon steel. It is higher than some but lower than most.
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These terms have loose definations, high is commonly 0.6% and above, this is the carbon content necessary for maximum martensite hardness, ~66 HRC. 440A can reach 60 HRC after tempering so it isn't unreasonable to call it a high carbon stainless steel.

sodi said:
Well I was thinking about a universal pocket knife to take into the nature. Maybee cutting wood etc.
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For that type of work there are a few consideration, if you can eliminate chopping then you don't need a high fracture toughness so the first goal is a high hardness. Depending on the level of humidity corrosion resistance might be required. A good starting point would be 1095, AEB-L and M2 all at near maximal hardness.

1095 at 66 HRC works well as a cutting tool in general for such work, the japanese use similar steels with a higher carbon content, usually 1.2%+ for their wood working tools. M2 is a high speed steel which will offer more wear resistance and is also capable of a very fine edge. AEB-L is a fine grain stainless which has a high max hardness and lack of coarse primary carbides.

-Cliff
 
sodi said:
Hello,

I am new here and I would like to ask you, which material has the highest edge retention quality. Is it the high carbon steel like 440A or Cera-Titanum blade.
Click to expand...

Forlast german knife magazin has had a look at the Boker Cera Titan blades and found them to stay sharp for long. They didn´t checked the knife in drop -tests and things like but followed the idea as advertised, that cera titan is tougher than pure ceramic blade. Why not? But the lock was bad. Maybe a ceramic blade will keep an edge during long term cuttings longer than some steel blades, i don´t know. But they are terribly brittle and for the money i wouldn´t like to know if the combination with titan improves toughness. Looking at the lock, i have no doubt, to look for another knife. For the varity of steel grades and there different properties as blades (finer grained very sharp ones to microsaws) i would still choose a steel blade, no matter if it would be an edc or kitchen knife. Plus, there you will get a better varity of models. How it feels and works in hand and how well it is made has a major influence on how well your knife works for you.

I guess, most of us would sharpen the blade earlier, than it is really dull and that minimises the edge - holding - advantage.
 
Let me recommend that you do a few searches to give you an idea of the different types of steel before you ask such a broad question. Most people around here will agree that 440A is a poor steel. A great steel is A2, a great stainless is S30V or BG42, and a really good steel that is tougher than most stainless, but still provides some corrosion resistance is D2. (Many people consider this the idea compromise between the two.)
 
Cera Titan was shown to be shatter-resistant, IIRC, but still wouldn't withstand high stresses or impacts well. If you're mainly cutting through softer items like paper, cardboard, flesh, etc. then it's a fantastic knife material which will maintain a very scary edge for a very long time. As an added bonus, it should be absurdly corrosion-resistant, given that its main two components (titanium and ceramic) are damn near immune to corrosion. That said, it won't take well to things like chopping, hitting bone while slicing, etc. so hard use is out. Good knife for around the house or the office, but don't take it camping.
 
This is really just a personal opinion: But I would stay away from the non-steel materials for blades. You don't know how they can be sharpened, they may for example chip on a coarse ceramic rod, like the Sharpmakers. Toughness is largely unknown, but it seems that in general the ceramic materials are still a step behind the common steels. All in all I think a step in the wrong direction. They may be great for very specific purposes like kitchen knives, but for a utility blade, personally I would stay away from them.

As to 440A....I think you can do better without spending necessarily more. I don't know what knives you were looking at, but a Delica 4/Endura 4/Salt/Griptilian would do very well, it seems to me. All of which use better steels.

These days it seems pretty easy to find a reasonably priced knife with a "premium" steel, such as 154CM, VG-10, D2, H-1, 440C, AUS-8 and even S30V,....personally even AUS-6 though a lot of people don't like it. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, but I would take any of those over 440A
 
sodi said:
Hello,

I am new here and I would like to ask you, which material has the highest edge retention quality. Is it the high carbon steel like 440A or Cera-Titanum blade.
Click to expand...

There is no answer on that. However all may agree that on the top steels on the market are
stainless ATS-34, CM-154, CPM S30V, VG-10, 440C, 110X18 MSHD, Sandvic 12C27...
high carbon A2, M2, D2, 52100, 5160, O1, CPM 3V, INFI...

Also steel should be properly heat treated, so it should be respectable brand.

There is few supersteel currently on the market semi-available - ZDP-189, CPM S90V also I personally think that SRS-15 is real supersteel now.

But in general for regular use differences will not be really noticable, so any of this steels and some other I foget will work just fine and you better pay attention to blade geometry and overall knife design.

440A, 420... also good steels and will cut fine...

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Thanks guys for all your imput. It has been very helpful.

I came to a conclusion that a question concerning the best steel is very difficult to answer. I think that for my purposes (camping) the best steel would be CPM S30V.
 
sodi said:
Thanks guys for all your imput. It has been very helpful.

I came to a conclusion that a question concerning the best steel is very difficult to answer. I think that for my purposes (camping) the best steel would be CPM S30V.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is a difficult question because there is no real "answer", and blade steel is only one of the factors that you should consider in your selection process. I think you will do better by trying to find a knife from a reputable manufacturer that best fits your overall needs. The chances are good that it will be constructed of a quality steel, and you'll end up with a tool that suits you well. :thumbup:
 
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