The HELP Ira Thread

wolfmann601

wolfmann601

Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
Joined
Mar 12, 2001
Messages
7,385
I finally get a chance
To ask questions that have haunted me since becoming INFECTED, all right, all right, I admit it; ADDICTED to knives, and rather than start five no threads, I hope you do not mind me taking advantage of all of this enormous wealth of knowledge here right now. (YOU TOO Mr. Clark, I really would like to hear from you also).

It's now been a little more than two years since beginning to collect knives and discovering this to be 10 times MORE enjoyable than collecting firearms. Not only can I have a knife made to MY specs, I can do so without EVER needing to worry about FFL's, red-tape, ATF, tax-stamps, and the standard four-figure start point to begin to have made what it is I want.

But knives are far more complex than I first imagined. Besides the continual changing opinions on WHAT IS the best Steel or alloy, to the difference between a hollow-grind and a flat grind, clip-point, to Tanto, I find myself trying to comission a knife-Maker and getting hung up the moment AFTER I send the initial E-mail that requests a fixed blade "fighter" with a 6.5 inch blade of ????? steel and then WHAT IS IT you want for handle material that has this bluish/slate hue to it.

From that moment on, the confusion begins. I know I want a knife that maintains a very sharp edge. I also want it to look STUNNING. But do I want ATS-34, 154-CM, Stellite, Talonite, a mirror finish, a satin finish, a hand-rubbed finish, or some type of coating, and WHAT coating are you looking for. Next onto handle material. Is it STABILIZED wood? (now here you got me. I never talked to a piece of wood to determine if it's stable or nucking futs, so HUH?), or How about STAG(OK, how about stag....HUH?), or would you like one of the Dymondwoods? (wood made OF Diamonds, wood made IN 'Dymandwood, USA', and what exactly is dymondwood?) or how about Bone? WHO'S BONE? (I do not want the Femur of Osama Bin-Laden on a knife I intend to carry! OR, do I?)

So, I am now pretty straight about that 'tell-tale Etch', but what factors does a NEWBIE really need to consider when looking for a fixed Blade that he INTENDS to carry as his EDC?

I hope this can somehow be condensed into a brief answer. I am absolutely perplexed.............Thank you,

Ira
 
I would suggest by making a list of what qualities are important to you:
For the blade, is strength for prying, stain/rust resistance, edge-holding, or sharpenability important to you? Price point? If you want absolute rust-proofing, Talonite or Stellite might be a good idea. If you don't mind taking care of the knife, and want a stronger blade (more resistant to lateral stress), 3-V or D-2 might be better choices. If all you care about is edge-holding, 10V would be a good candidate.
Regarding blade finishes...check out some examples of the different finishes available. If you find a satin finish attractive, then go with that. A mirror finish is great in a lot of ways: it reduces rust (less surface area) and friction in a cut (again, a smoother surface). On the other hand, some steels don't take a mirror polish very well (the CPM steels tend not to), a mirror polish is time-consuming and will add to the price of the finished product, and mirror polished blades tend to show scratches more easily.

Stabilized wood: basically wood injected with super glue to make it less prone to dimensional changes and cracking with humidity and temperature changes.

Dymondwood: a fancy name for pretty plywood (I'm oversimplifying). Dymondwood is denser and harder than ordinary wood; it is the garishly colored stuff you often see as the handles on Frosts knives. It's available in less flashy colors though.

If I were you, taking into consideration that you want a daily carry knife that is also pretty, I would go with D-2 (good edge-holding, good stainlessness, reasonably tough), a satin finish (I understand D-2 doesn't take a real good mirror polish), and either stabilized wood (pretty) or micarta (pretty tough). My .02.

And wolf, after two years you're not a newbie anymore. :)
 
Hi Ira, I think the advice given by Burke is very sound.

Dymondwood, Frostwood and Pakkawood are basically the same thing acrylic impregnated wood laminates. Some are actually made to look like real wood and some are made in rainbow type colors.

Stabilized wood is a wood that has been impregnated with monomers and acrylics, not Superglue. The reasons for this were well covered by Burke. One other advantage to stabilized wood is that it does not need to be oiled to keep it in good condition.

Stag is a natural material and like other natural materials it will shrink or expand due to atmospheric conditions. It will also crack if it gets too dry and can break when dropped. It has beauty, durability under normal conditions and natural ridges for grip as things going for it. It can get pretty slippery when wet.

As far as steels are concerned, there are many that will make excellent knives. Sometimes I think that hype has more to do with the steel a person chooses than the fact that it is a better steel than another. I like tough steels that sharpen easily but hold an edge as well. I find carbon steels fit the bill. They need a little care to make sure they don't rust or stain, but that is not difficult. If I want a knife that has to survive humid conditions, salt water or high acidity I will pick a stainless or Talonite/Stellite 6K. Talonite and Stellite 6K are not the same aloy although they are closely related. They are not iron based alloys, instead there main component is cobalt. This means that they do not rust. They have cost going against them since they cost much more than most steels. Steels that do not have much of a price advantage over Talonite/Stellite are some of the CPM (Crucible Particle Metallurgy). The CPM steels have gained great reputations in the knife industry. To see what advantages they have over normal steel check out this link.
http://www.crucibleservice.com/crucpm.htm

That's it for now.
 
You might want to consider just studiing custom knives for a while. One of the best ways is to go to some of the knife dealer sites and just plain window shop. Look and study. Ask questions. Ask questions. Ask questions.

Pretty soon all of these things will start to make sense. Spend some time visiting every makers site that you can find. Look at everything they make regardless of price. And ask questions. I've never met a knifemaker who won't talk about his knives.
 
I have fallen pretty hard into the world of knives and for the first two years, haven taken it VERY SLOWLY.

2002 marks the first time in my life that I have "commissioned" three makers to built me a fixed blade knife. I have already decided each one will have different steel, and I already have decided each will have a different finish.

All three SHALL become my EDC's, and then be passed on to my three children. While they are mine, they can be expected to see
(the Good Lord willing), thirty years of everyday use. YUP will still have a folder in my pocket for those Nasty jobs, but I do not want a knife that cannot handle daily abuse.

In EVERY case, as I have conversed with the maker, I get stopped dead in my tracks on two issues:

1. Handle material

2. Grind

The biggest of course is the handle material. I have researched now for six Months, and while I have a great mind for "legal stuff", I am MINDLESS when it comes to woods, bones, horns, and synthetics.
The conversation usually ends up with a :[DUH, You decide and "surprise me".]

Let me key on the two issues then: grinds and grips. Why would it matter if I have the knife "hollow ground", flat ground", or convex ground" AND

if I want handle material that is absolutely gorgeous and unique, but is durable and will not stain with deer blood, dent or crack when I drop my knife, and not require daily treatments, what REALLY is out there as an option?

I know this is a very broad question, but this is where I am at???
Thanks for all the help Guys............Ira:confused: :confused: :)
 
How about having one of the knives done in each of the basic grind styles?

Here's my thoughts on grinds (with a Spyderco example for each of them):

Hollow grind (Spyderco Viele): generally a little less durable, depending on ultimate edge geometry, size and depth of grind, etc. Tends to cut well on shallow cuts, but the full-thickness spine can bind. Easier to sharpen.

Flat grind (Spyderco Military): a good all-around grind, IMHO. Makes a strong blade, edge (again, depending on the geometry of the actual edge). Pretty easy to sharpen.

Convex grind (Spyderco Moran): Tough! The edge is reinforced by more steel, closer to where it's actually cutting. This means extreme damage to the edge is less likely. Plus, the rounded shape of the blade reduces friction (a pretty minor effect). Convex grinds can be a little harder to resharpen. I mostly steel mine, and remove a little metal with a Spyderco Profile to maintain the edge, but over time this will convert a convex grind into a flat one.

For a general use knife, any of these grinds would be suitable. A slim, convexly ground blade will cut very well and be strong, while a hollow grind ground on a large-diameter wheel will have the positive qualities of a hollow grind, and reduce the negative aspects. A flat grind combines the best of these two.

Handle material:

If you want something stunning, ask the maker(s) you are considering what they recommend. I've seen some gorgeous stabilized hardwoods that would be very durable. There are also some micartas that are drop-dead gorgeous, but are impossible to find (rag, burlap). That's why I like to ask makers for input on handle materials. They know what they have available, and how it looks.

Hope this is helpful.
 
Hey Ira!
I think that you have to approach this from the other direction.
First determine what the knife will be used for, and work backwards from there.
Example (Just for the halibut) a fillet knife for saltwater use.
I would want a stainless steel, thin blade about 9" polished, and flat ground with a sandblasted micarta handle.
Now we can break it down...
Stainless because of the saltwater enviornment, less likely to rust. (Which stainless could go on for pages...)
9" blade because the fish are larger and the fillets are bigger (we hope) Thin because it should flex, so it stays flat on the board while skinning the fillet.
Flat ground because it will separate the meat from the skeleton well.
Polished blade, goes back to less corrosion.
Micarta is tough to hurt and if it is sand blasted, it'll be very grippy, even if it gets slimey.
I hope that helps :)
 
That idea about getting a knife in each of the three basic grinds is a pretty darn good one. That way you will be able to use these knives and decide for yourself which you prefer. You will probably even find that one many be better for some of the uses you put it to while the others will be better at cutting other stuff.

Handle materials are going to be more of a problem as I find that the most durable ones are usually not the most beautiful. The exception to this may be stabilized wood. It is very durable, does not need to be oiled, will not stain with even moderate care and can be exceptionally beautiful. It can break, but you really would have to work at it.
 
Knife reading material is hard to find in my State, but approaching this in the REVERSE makes a lot of sense.
I know that I want each one to serve as a tool to take hunting anf fishing. They will not see salt water, but if I am lucky will seevaried[/] quadrapeds like Deer, moose, boar, and Coyote. As far as fishing, I catch and release so they won't see and fileting activity. They also will need to push cut (my prefered method)whatever it is I need to incise, within reason, of course.

The one thing that I do want to maintain is that :HOLY COW, what a GORGEOUS KNIFE reaction EVERY time it is taken from it's sheath. My search includes bone and horn {already have that one just about done) and my next knife is in the process, but beyond the request for the handle material to be of the {i]Breath-taking stunning[/i]I am torn between some gorgeous woods that are a little soft, some woods that are a bear to work with and some stabilzed woods that I am not sure even exist. But, I have decided to decide FIRST what I want to knife to do, and then have it made how I want it to look. before, I was asking to have Makers make my knife the way I wanted it to look first, and then performance second. Thanks to the great commensts, that is now changed................wolf
 
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