The inquisition resumes in Europe?

DannyinJapan

DannyinJapan

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Austria Imposes 3-Year Sentence on Notorious Holocaust Denier
Published: February 21, 2006

VIENNA, Feb. 20 (AP) — The British historian David Irving on Monday pleaded guilty to denying the Holocaust and was sentenced to three years in prison. He conceded that he was wrong when he said there were no Nazi gas chambers at the Auschwitz death camp.


A man is imprisoned for his opinions?
what the blue bloody f#$% is going on in Europe???
 
They are very politically correct about things that can't hurt them any more.

Madness.


munk
 
Anyone else detect a bit of guilt-induced overreaction here?

I'm not familiar with Austria's laws, but I'm wondering which of them were actually broken.
 
Anyone else detect a bit of guilt-induced overreaction here?

I suspect that David Irving was a bit of a problem and that they simply used what was on the books to put him away for a while. I doubt that an odinary person would be put away for expressing an opinion; but there is a fine line between that and inciting a riot.

n2s
 
What would happen in NYC today to a Parisienne who denied that Al Queda blew up the twin towers? Those who lost loved ones would want his balls for a bowtie....n'est pas?
 
Of course they are now super-sensitive to any opinions on that particular subject. The Austrians have taken ownership of what they allowed to happen, and now are going so far in the other direction to compensate for it that they lock up folks who say they really _didn't_ do anything wrong.

Danny brought it up and can speak to it far better than I, but I imagine that if you were in Japan and said that Pearl Harbor and the Rape of Nanking and the Bataan Death March didn't happen they would probably give you a medal and a free Honda or something. ;)

It would at the very least be a far different approach to the issue.

Norm
 
Not only the Austrians, but IIRC if you deny the Nazi crimes, you''re in trouble in Germany as well.

For a good reason. It's not a matter of opinion, Danny, it's a matter of facts.
As far as I'm concerned, this guy didn't get that sentence because he had a different opinion, but because he was spreading his rightwing propaganda and denying facts, especially as a historian.

regards, Keno
 
It is a matter of opinion. Everyone has their own viewpoint and should be allowed to express it. (no matter how nutty it may be)
Of course the holocaust happened. (We were there, ya know...)

However, the idea that anyone should be put in jail for their opinions, even if they are written in a history book or spraypainted on a wall, is basically the same evil, gestapo-like bull$hit that the man said never happened!

You're just never going to have any luck convincing Americans that there is some justifiable basis for imprisoning a man becuase his words and ideas are contrary to the rest of his society. (Isn't that the new testament?)


In Japan, if I started talking about those things , Norm, most people wouldnt know what I was talking about. That section of their history books is about three pages long and all it says is "War sucks"
 
Danny,
Those laws in Europe are partially there to crush the Neo-Nazi Skinhead
violence that had been getting way out of hand in the last few years.
Denial and revisionist history has been a big part of thier recruiting spiel and rhetoric.

DaddyDett
 
That's unacceptable.
If people want to say racist things, thats their business.
If someone is violent, you charge them with the laws already in place regarding violence.
What you do not do is create laws forbidding free speech in order to target and persecute a certain part of the population.

Shall we make it illegal to speak in Ebonics?
Imagine....
 
This is an interesting subject that brings something else to mind.

Will the events of late regarding the cartoons eventually end up with Islamic and specifically arabs being the new Jews as far as prejudice and discrimination?

I think Islamic Radicals are a big time problem, but I wonder if their actions will ignite some racisim that is laying under the surface in many of these European countries that will affect even peaceful muslims.
 
I understand your point of view, Danny, and in America, it's certainly valid.
Having lived in Germany 3 yrs., and the UK 2 yrs., I can tell you our freedoms
are much broader than thiers. I am not rationalizing thier laws, just pointing at the difference.

My time overseas has made me all the more grateful to live here in the USA.

DaddyDett
 
Hollow,
There is vast underlying racism in Europe. In Germany, it's the Turks and Blacks that are deeply resented by some.
In the UK, it's the Arabs, Indians and Pakistanis.

Some of this is akin to the situation here over Illegals coming in from the south, some is resentment over jobs lost to foreigners that the locals didnt want anyway. Some is misdirected nationalism, some is just plain resentment against people that are different.

Industrial England in particular is a powder keg of frustration and resentment
just looking for a fuse.

DaddyDett
 
Danny,

What about the right of the Austrians to pass legislation restricting freedoms? I agree that in America this situation would be unacceptable bordering on taboo. But the freedoms we have here aren't guaranteed there, and the Austrians have the right to legislate freedom any way they see fit right? No disrespect of course, I think the guy got the shaft too. Anybody think this situation has been amplified to the point of overreaction by the recent statements by the president of Iran.

OT.......I believe we have no choice but to Bomb Iran NOW!!!!!!! And I think if Aeriel Sharon had not had a stroke Israel would have stepped up and hit that dang nuclear facility already. (YMMV)
 
Our notions of human rights are not universal. In Austria, apparently, laws that would be unconstitutional in the US exist. The situation is not so different in many other countries.

Danny, I suspect the same may be true of Japan. It has been in several other countries I've visited.

It's best to know and abide by the local laws unless you're prepared to pay the consequences. Ask the Singapore drug guy.
 
Sounds to me we need to encourage the president of Iran to visit Austria and say something stupid.






munk
 
The point of Danny's observation is not that a nation doesn't have the right to pass it's own laws, but that at some point, if those laws violate universal principles, something is truly wrong.

Free speech is a fundemental. The ACLU defends NAMBLA here in the US. I don't happen to agree with that because I think Nambla encourages felonies.

At any rate, jailing someone for life for drug trafficing, or saying the Holocaust did not happen, certainly does not yet go over the line requiring international intervention. I suppose a boycott is always possible.

I certainly don't feel like visiting Austria or France. A bestselling book in France had the premise the CIA blew the twin towers down. In the Middle East, people are told Jews eat babies, and an international press is sympathetic to Iraq freedom fighters.

There is an information war going on, isn't there?

munk
 
Interesting,

I just read an article some place else, with a different point of view, similar to what many express here. I guess it's to some extent about what you're used to.

Then again, these laws are commonly known. Maybe, just maybe, he should've moved to the US first before spreading his lies. Might have been the smarter thing to do. I don't feel sorry for the guy, he knew what to expect. It's not like these are secret laws.

Kinda OT, every time I fly to the US I am being questioned if I took part in the Nazi Crimes. I suppose if you mark 'Yes' they will not let you enter the US.
Then again, if there'd be a question: "Do you support the Nazi Crimes?" and you'd say "Yes" they'll let you in I guess, since it's just an opinion. I think both are equally wrong; without even taking into account the contemporary circumstances - not everyone back then had the choice to not be a soldier, but everyone now has the choice to have a different opinion.


Keno
 
munk said:
Sounds to me we need to encourage the president of Iran to visit Austria and say something stupid.

munk
Click to expand...


Amen to that. I'd give a dollar to that fund.:rolleyes: I, like you, believe that freedom of speach is a universal principal we should value. I also don't want us imposing our universal principals on other nations unless they pose a risk to us. America is the greatest country in the world (without question or peer:D ), but we don't have the time nor the desire to interfere in other country's right to govern themselves do we? As stated, IMHO, France and Austria can go eat a bug.:cool: Their system sucks, their world view sucks, I don't like it at all. But truly, I don't care either, they can swim in their own stink all they want. If we stand up for their freedoms too loudly they may swim over here like our southern neighbors take the liberty to do so often(:grumpy: ), and eventually vote in dumbass legislation regulating free speach.:thumbdn: ;)
 
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